Today marked the official delivery of the future HMCS Robert Hampton Gray, the sixth and final Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship (AOPS) built at Halifax Shipyard for the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN).
The Harry DeWolf class is a solid platform for the RCN to enable regular arctic patrols and will allow the ability for future upgrading. This class will undoubtedly recieve armament and capability upgrades in the future as their roles evolve and situations warrant. I would like to see the full integration of the CH-148 Cyclone and the RAST hauldown system to start. With an on-board HelAirDet, surveillance capability will be significantly expanded. The new ISTAR drone capability for the Halifax class will likely also be expanded to this class to ensure the ships can deploy with either helo or drone capability depending on the mission requirement. I could see the main gun upgraded to the Bofors 57 mm, 8 NSM's and RIM 116 or CIWS mounted if global security conditions continue to deteriorate. This is a brand new class in its infancy. The DND budget will allow for future capability upgrades and the Arctic has become the new future zone of international competition.
Having a hard time with this class or ship being fairly useless in any conflict and therefore should never have been designated to the Navy. They are simply light to medium ice breakers with no combat capability whatsoever. While I appreciate the effort put into these vessels, Canada would have been better off building 6 Pohjanmaa class corvettes/frigates for our Navy and two heavier ice breakers around Polar Class 3 vessels for the Coast Guard. These ships have only postponed the building of actual warships.
Disagree. These give the navy much more access to the North & while light on effectors it brings great capability in other areas. A great sensing platform with lots of utility. Really looking forward to the drone project being implemented for them
It's actually light on the effector as well as the sensors. This is not in anyway a Navy purposed ship and should be relinquished to the Coast Guard to show the flag as its only purpose. Also without missle and torpedo armament on their ships the Coast Guard budget should not be counted as part of our Defense spending as the do not have the capability to contribute toward our Defense against another Nations Navy.
But the MCDVs are also light on effectors, yet they are undisputedly RCN ships. Sometimes, utility ships are just that - useful. AOPS is a utility ship, what with the potential for specialised containerised payloads, a HELIAIRDET or UAS AIRDETs, & other capabilities. To say nothing of providing the RCN with multi-season Arctic access. They have more self-defence capabilitt than MCDV, & should stay as far away from combat as MCDV. Think of these like an embiggened MCDV with more Arctic capability & flexibility, not a major surface combatant like the Halifax class.
Times have changed and the world has circled back to being more dangerous than at anytime since WWIl, hence the reason the RCN is looking to fully armed corvettes as a replacement to the MCDV and not just similiar type ships. This should also apply to the AOPS. They should either have add on armaments that allow them to contribute to our sovereign defense or be discarded to the Coast Guard and replaced with ships that can, like the Pohjanmaa class for example.
Even in that great example of peace-time naval cooperation, from 1939-1945, RN, USN, RCN & other navies had plenty of lightly armed (if not completely unarmed) utility ships. Things like minesweepers, near-shore patrol craft, supply ships, etc. (& yes, those were all lightly armed. It wasn't a single 40mm mount & a few AA guns which would fend off even a small combattant like a Corvette).
Not everything needs (or can) be equipped like a proper surface combattant.
Also... Pohjanma class are great ships for the Baltic or Finland's North sea coast (in a corvetter, not utility role) But they weren't designed 10 years ago when steel was cut for HDW...
If we want a year-round Arctic capable ship, it needs longer range & much longer endurance than Pohjanmaa... & a heavier hull. We would've had to completely redesign Pohjanma to make it fit the operating concept/environment of HDW... & Those changes would likely have resulted in the loss of much of the armament you desire. They are different hulls, with different roles.
Note that even for CDC... Going with Pohjanma would still result in major changes (notwithstanding doubling the size). We forget just how big the continent can be, so cruising range/endurance is important... Any of the Baltic focused corvettes would need significant changes (& reduced weapon load) for increased range/endurance to operate at the distances we need (note I'm sceptical we'll be able to put everything the RCN wants for CDC in a hull of <2k tonnes & still have the range/endurance we need...)
Perhaps, but hindsight is always 20/20. Now we have to move forward and fight like Ukrainians. They’ve used whatever they could get with imagination and know-how, creating superlative weapons out of the outdated stuff Biden sent. Surely we too can make an opportunity here!
The Harry DeWolf class is a solid platform for the RCN to enable regular arctic patrols and will allow the ability for future upgrading. This class will undoubtedly recieve armament and capability upgrades in the future as their roles evolve and situations warrant. I would like to see the full integration of the CH-148 Cyclone and the RAST hauldown system to start. With an on-board HelAirDet, surveillance capability will be significantly expanded. The new ISTAR drone capability for the Halifax class will likely also be expanded to this class to ensure the ships can deploy with either helo or drone capability depending on the mission requirement. I could see the main gun upgraded to the Bofors 57 mm, 8 NSM's and RIM 116 or CIWS mounted if global security conditions continue to deteriorate. This is a brand new class in its infancy. The DND budget will allow for future capability upgrades and the Arctic has become the new future zone of international competition.
Having a hard time with this class or ship being fairly useless in any conflict and therefore should never have been designated to the Navy. They are simply light to medium ice breakers with no combat capability whatsoever. While I appreciate the effort put into these vessels, Canada would have been better off building 6 Pohjanmaa class corvettes/frigates for our Navy and two heavier ice breakers around Polar Class 3 vessels for the Coast Guard. These ships have only postponed the building of actual warships.
Disagree. These give the navy much more access to the North & while light on effectors it brings great capability in other areas. A great sensing platform with lots of utility. Really looking forward to the drone project being implemented for them
It's actually light on the effector as well as the sensors. This is not in anyway a Navy purposed ship and should be relinquished to the Coast Guard to show the flag as its only purpose. Also without missle and torpedo armament on their ships the Coast Guard budget should not be counted as part of our Defense spending as the do not have the capability to contribute toward our Defense against another Nations Navy.
But the MCDVs are also light on effectors, yet they are undisputedly RCN ships. Sometimes, utility ships are just that - useful. AOPS is a utility ship, what with the potential for specialised containerised payloads, a HELIAIRDET or UAS AIRDETs, & other capabilities. To say nothing of providing the RCN with multi-season Arctic access. They have more self-defence capabilitt than MCDV, & should stay as far away from combat as MCDV. Think of these like an embiggened MCDV with more Arctic capability & flexibility, not a major surface combatant like the Halifax class.
Times have changed and the world has circled back to being more dangerous than at anytime since WWIl, hence the reason the RCN is looking to fully armed corvettes as a replacement to the MCDV and not just similiar type ships. This should also apply to the AOPS. They should either have add on armaments that allow them to contribute to our sovereign defense or be discarded to the Coast Guard and replaced with ships that can, like the Pohjanmaa class for example.
Even in that great example of peace-time naval cooperation, from 1939-1945, RN, USN, RCN & other navies had plenty of lightly armed (if not completely unarmed) utility ships. Things like minesweepers, near-shore patrol craft, supply ships, etc. (& yes, those were all lightly armed. It wasn't a single 40mm mount & a few AA guns which would fend off even a small combattant like a Corvette).
Not everything needs (or can) be equipped like a proper surface combattant.
Also... Pohjanma class are great ships for the Baltic or Finland's North sea coast (in a corvetter, not utility role) But they weren't designed 10 years ago when steel was cut for HDW...
If we want a year-round Arctic capable ship, it needs longer range & much longer endurance than Pohjanmaa... & a heavier hull. We would've had to completely redesign Pohjanma to make it fit the operating concept/environment of HDW... & Those changes would likely have resulted in the loss of much of the armament you desire. They are different hulls, with different roles.
Note that even for CDC... Going with Pohjanma would still result in major changes (notwithstanding doubling the size). We forget just how big the continent can be, so cruising range/endurance is important... Any of the Baltic focused corvettes would need significant changes (& reduced weapon load) for increased range/endurance to operate at the distances we need (note I'm sceptical we'll be able to put everything the RCN wants for CDC in a hull of <2k tonnes & still have the range/endurance we need...)
Perhaps, but hindsight is always 20/20. Now we have to move forward and fight like Ukrainians. They’ve used whatever they could get with imagination and know-how, creating superlative weapons out of the outdated stuff Biden sent. Surely we too can make an opportunity here!
Finally someone who like the Pajamas. Let's go!
Nice tribute to the people that made this capability a reality. Ships for Canada.
Number 1 - Engage RCD OPERATION WARPSPEED.
For the meantime I have only one request - sharks with fricking laser beams attached to their heads...