This interests me for a tangential non-defense reason: growing up on the shores of lake Ontario, I remember hearing how the lakers (the cargo ships built to fit in the lock system connecting the Great lakes) were horribly inefficient old hulls that were not being replaced because old rules that penalized ships not built in Canada. Now, it's been years (decades? Oh, I feel old...) since I've heard anything about the lakers, but I kind of doubt the problem has gotten dramatically better in the mean time. The Ontario shipyard is probably where most of the lakers were originally built, so I'd be interested to know if they are working up to building new Lakers again ...
"Subject to the award of the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP), Hanwha Ocean intends to pursue further strategic investment in Ontario, including the establishment of a dedicated shipbuilding training centre and expanded industrial cooperation with Ontario-based suppliers" - isn't this saying that the deal is contingent on winning the CPSP project? Or am I confused?
Yes, like all the recent MOU and MOI signed by Hanwha and TKMS, theses are attempts to sweeten the deal for the federal government and make their deal more attractive. It's a competition, and while they might be interested in investing in Canada on their own, they would not be investing so prolifically, or being so generous with investments. Don't get me wrong, Hanwha and TKMS will see returns on many of these investments... Eventually. But if it was only for the returns inherent in the investments, they would be investing more judiciously, and likely demanding faster returns. These deals aren't lucrative enough on their own to justify the up front cost (which in some cases are quite significant, like the Algoma steel investment), so the only reason they are being seriously considered is because of CPSP. If they don't win it, they might eventually make some investments, but not this many, all at once, or on such favourable terms for the Canadian economy. CPSP is a BIG DEAL in Korea, the whole country is invested in Hanwha getting this deal. It's making front page news in Korea, and so it should be. This is amoung the biggest thing Canada has EVER purchased from a foreign country that isn't the USA.
Oh I understand that, but Noah in his comments clearly suggests that the deals are separate; ie. independent of the CPSP; wanted to confirm my own reading of the article
Oh, I see now. I think the Noah confused the issue a little when he wrote, "While these agreements are primarily separate from the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project, their existence is still closely tied to the project’s continued competition."
I agree that the text of the press release contradicts him, but maybe he knows something we don't? Or maybe he is making an assumption, it can happen to anybody. While Hanwha is incentivized to make these at least to appear to all hinge on winning the competition, it's possible that they intend to follow through on some of them regardless, because they think they will offer tangible benefits. Many corporations fund college programs like this because they know they will get first crack at freshly trained professionals before they even hit the job markets. As Noah has said before, Canada's post secondary institutions have a very good global reputation, so this could be valuable to Hanwha, even if they don't win the sub bid. Plus they could be interested in buying a piece of Ontario Shipyards, the Koreans have bought several American yards already. The disclaimer about being contingent on CPSP could be purely a pressure tactic, to induce all the stakeholders at the college to lobby their MPs, etc for Hanwha for free. We won't really know until the contract is awarded, and we see how much the loosing party retreats to lick it's wounds. Korea and Germany are both investing a lot of time and effort into looking for Canadian partners, which is only really happening because of CPSP, but they have every reason to hope for some return on the efforts, even if they don't win. Some of there MOU and MOIs will be loss leaders, purely there to sweeten the pot, and will evaporate of theor bid is not successful, but some of them likely have enough value that they will continue after a loss, though possibly not quite as energetically as of they had won.
I'm really curious as to what capabilities the new training vessel will have. Will they design it so it can also carry at least one ISO20 container so it could provide auxiliary ASW/MCM capacity in a pinch?
This interests me for a tangential non-defense reason: growing up on the shores of lake Ontario, I remember hearing how the lakers (the cargo ships built to fit in the lock system connecting the Great lakes) were horribly inefficient old hulls that were not being replaced because old rules that penalized ships not built in Canada. Now, it's been years (decades? Oh, I feel old...) since I've heard anything about the lakers, but I kind of doubt the problem has gotten dramatically better in the mean time. The Ontario shipyard is probably where most of the lakers were originally built, so I'd be interested to know if they are working up to building new Lakers again ...
"Subject to the award of the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP), Hanwha Ocean intends to pursue further strategic investment in Ontario, including the establishment of a dedicated shipbuilding training centre and expanded industrial cooperation with Ontario-based suppliers" - isn't this saying that the deal is contingent on winning the CPSP project? Or am I confused?
Yes, like all the recent MOU and MOI signed by Hanwha and TKMS, theses are attempts to sweeten the deal for the federal government and make their deal more attractive. It's a competition, and while they might be interested in investing in Canada on their own, they would not be investing so prolifically, or being so generous with investments. Don't get me wrong, Hanwha and TKMS will see returns on many of these investments... Eventually. But if it was only for the returns inherent in the investments, they would be investing more judiciously, and likely demanding faster returns. These deals aren't lucrative enough on their own to justify the up front cost (which in some cases are quite significant, like the Algoma steel investment), so the only reason they are being seriously considered is because of CPSP. If they don't win it, they might eventually make some investments, but not this many, all at once, or on such favourable terms for the Canadian economy. CPSP is a BIG DEAL in Korea, the whole country is invested in Hanwha getting this deal. It's making front page news in Korea, and so it should be. This is amoung the biggest thing Canada has EVER purchased from a foreign country that isn't the USA.
Oh I understand that, but Noah in his comments clearly suggests that the deals are separate; ie. independent of the CPSP; wanted to confirm my own reading of the article
Oh, I see now. I think the Noah confused the issue a little when he wrote, "While these agreements are primarily separate from the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project, their existence is still closely tied to the project’s continued competition."
I agree that the text of the press release contradicts him, but maybe he knows something we don't? Or maybe he is making an assumption, it can happen to anybody. While Hanwha is incentivized to make these at least to appear to all hinge on winning the competition, it's possible that they intend to follow through on some of them regardless, because they think they will offer tangible benefits. Many corporations fund college programs like this because they know they will get first crack at freshly trained professionals before they even hit the job markets. As Noah has said before, Canada's post secondary institutions have a very good global reputation, so this could be valuable to Hanwha, even if they don't win the sub bid. Plus they could be interested in buying a piece of Ontario Shipyards, the Koreans have bought several American yards already. The disclaimer about being contingent on CPSP could be purely a pressure tactic, to induce all the stakeholders at the college to lobby their MPs, etc for Hanwha for free. We won't really know until the contract is awarded, and we see how much the loosing party retreats to lick it's wounds. Korea and Germany are both investing a lot of time and effort into looking for Canadian partners, which is only really happening because of CPSP, but they have every reason to hope for some return on the efforts, even if they don't win. Some of there MOU and MOIs will be loss leaders, purely there to sweeten the pot, and will evaporate of theor bid is not successful, but some of them likely have enough value that they will continue after a loss, though possibly not quite as energetically as of they had won.
I'm really curious as to what capabilities the new training vessel will have. Will they design it so it can also carry at least one ISO20 container so it could provide auxiliary ASW/MCM capacity in a pinch?