I agree, an odd miss. We will share many platforms with the Norwegians especially if we go with the 212cd as they have the p-8 as well. I think Halifax as a tier 1 maintenance & weapons hub for these subs could offer them
both advantages as well, crewing agreements, weapons development etc. what did you think about the production commitments? 3-4 a year by 2028? Does that sound plausible? Any talk about the CMS 330 being used on the 212cd?
CMS will not be used on the 212cd. Its not designed for it, and the 212cd is getting its own, new CMS developed by Kongsberg. It will be called ORCCA! Theres also likely work there for Canada’s own Kongsberg Geospatial.
As for production? This is when the facility at Wismar is coming online. I believe it will have the capacity to work on five subs at any given time. This is obviousky not counting Kiel, who is pretty full right now and will be well into the future.
Hanwha plans to be able to work eight at one time at Okpo by 2028. So the numbers align, however Germany also has a lot more internstional orders to commit to along with theirs and Norways.
This announcement is nice, but its not new info. We knew that excess capacity was coming. Its unlikely to shift timelines that much. They were already accounting for it.
Commonality is absolutely one area they can tout, especially the Norwegians between these, Type-26, P8, F35, A330 MRTT through the European Multinational MRTT Fleet (MMF), etc
Getting a slot is on the table but not confirmed. Thats subject to deeper negotiations that likely won't happen unless we select the Type 212CD. Unless someone takes the initative and says it themselves that they would give up a slot.
Even then its unlikely we see more than one before 2035, not impossible, maybe an extra one if everything goes our way. They won't match Hanwha and Hyundai. Thats just a matter of capacity and orders.
I kind of had the same questions as Matthew. The thing I was trying to figure out is around deliveries as well. TKMS has (as far as I have heard) commited to meeting the 2035 delivery for the first sub. However, if they are producing 3-4 subs a year after 2027, they will have completed both German and Norway orders by 2029 -2030. If we got in the queue, it seems reasonable we could potentially get far more than one by 2035. I understand why they would not commit to that up front though.
Yes understood. I think of they can say we can have a slot and get us two before 2035, that takes some of the production advantage away from the Koreans. I don’t think one before 2035 is palatable. We’ll see. Thanks
Geopolitically, I think 6 + 6 to Kor + Ger is the best bet. Then add 3 to one depending on the future environment.
Also both present varied MIL benefits.
We have today 4 of the same class.
Frankly we need to step it up. I mean many global MNC’s work with multiple suppliers for the same mission. Not sure why the CAF are acting like kinder’s.
They are like OPS in corp. always someone else to blame. Vs owning the mission.
I agree, an odd miss. We will share many platforms with the Norwegians especially if we go with the 212cd as they have the p-8 as well. I think Halifax as a tier 1 maintenance & weapons hub for these subs could offer them
both advantages as well, crewing agreements, weapons development etc. what did you think about the production commitments? 3-4 a year by 2028? Does that sound plausible? Any talk about the CMS 330 being used on the 212cd?
CMS will not be used on the 212cd. Its not designed for it, and the 212cd is getting its own, new CMS developed by Kongsberg. It will be called ORCCA! Theres also likely work there for Canada’s own Kongsberg Geospatial.
As for production? This is when the facility at Wismar is coming online. I believe it will have the capacity to work on five subs at any given time. This is obviousky not counting Kiel, who is pretty full right now and will be well into the future.
Hanwha plans to be able to work eight at one time at Okpo by 2028. So the numbers align, however Germany also has a lot more internstional orders to commit to along with theirs and Norways.
This announcement is nice, but its not new info. We knew that excess capacity was coming. Its unlikely to shift timelines that much. They were already accounting for it.
Commonality is absolutely one area they can tout, especially the Norwegians between these, Type-26, P8, F35, A330 MRTT through the European Multinational MRTT Fleet (MMF), etc
Thanks, does that mean we could get more than one before 2035? Any talk of getting a slot from Norway or Germany?
Getting a slot is on the table but not confirmed. Thats subject to deeper negotiations that likely won't happen unless we select the Type 212CD. Unless someone takes the initative and says it themselves that they would give up a slot.
Even then its unlikely we see more than one before 2035, not impossible, maybe an extra one if everything goes our way. They won't match Hanwha and Hyundai. Thats just a matter of capacity and orders.
I kind of had the same questions as Matthew. The thing I was trying to figure out is around deliveries as well. TKMS has (as far as I have heard) commited to meeting the 2035 delivery for the first sub. However, if they are producing 3-4 subs a year after 2027, they will have completed both German and Norway orders by 2029 -2030. If we got in the queue, it seems reasonable we could potentially get far more than one by 2035. I understand why they would not commit to that up front though.
Yes understood. I think of they can say we can have a slot and get us two before 2035, that takes some of the production advantage away from the Koreans. I don’t think one before 2035 is palatable. We’ll see. Thanks
Geopolitically, I think 6 + 6 to Kor + Ger is the best bet. Then add 3 to one depending on the future environment.
Also both present varied MIL benefits.
We have today 4 of the same class.
Frankly we need to step it up. I mean many global MNC’s work with multiple suppliers for the same mission. Not sure why the CAF are acting like kinder’s.
They are like OPS in corp. always someone else to blame. Vs owning the mission.