While I love the Chinook, and what it can do, the best airframe for flying into severe arctic weather conditions is the Cormorant. Between us (Matt From 103 on YouTube) and the Norwegians with their SAR Queen, I feel the sensible option is to base a few up in the North. They’ve already proven they can do Arctic SAR missions. I think Chinooks are great for tactical lift, but do not have same all-weather pedigree that the Cormorants have. Trenton is getting some, however would like to see some based in Yellowknife and Iqaluit. We regularly deploy the Cormorant as a SAR asset to Pituffik during BOXTOP and NOBLE DEFENDER.
But Boeing really needs to develop an Arctic kit for the 47s. Heated blades, windscreens and engine inlets would really make it a wicked high north asset.
Or you jump to the 53k that already has all of this.
Q10- " We don't need a LAV for the Defence of Canada. " Then we don't need LAV's at all by your logic ? , if we don't need something for the Defence of Canada then we don't need it FULL STOP. I 100 % disagree with you on this , i think we do need LAV's for the Defence of Canada . In fact we need everything from bayonets right up to Nukes to defend Canada and any one who thinks other wise is living in a dream world .
While your enthusiasm is commendable, what Noah is referencing is that in a ground offensive on Canadian soil is a fairly low probability scenario. The only group that could pull it off is not one we can defeat in a stand up fight with LAVs, no matter how high we raise our elbows. In a world where we need to invest our limited resources where they make the maximum impact, we need to create a creditable expeditionary force that can be deployed next door to our adversaries, building credibility and and good will with our allies, and a professional and well trained force at home that creates a ready pool of trained soldiers in case of a surge situation. If we squandered our resources on building an un-invadable fortress Canada, we might actually need it, because we would no longer creditable ally. The size of our army doesn't stop Russia and China from landing their forces on our land and taking over, the strength of our alliances do. For a long time, that strength came from Uncle Sam, as much as I hate to admit it. In a changing world, the rest of NATO is having to step up, but no one member will ever be ready to go it alone anytime soon. So you better believe we need equipment that is solely intended to go over seas and contribute there, rather than make us feel tough and capable here at home. If our adversaries show up in our backyard, it will be by air or by sea, so it's hard to justify LAVs kept at home for any reason other than training and being ready for overseas deployment. Besides, if you gave the PRes LAVs (which would be awesome!) they wouldnt have a reason to accept deployment to get to play with the fun toys! That said, when do I get my LAV?
Hey, how’s it going? I completely understand what Noah is referencing and understand what Noah is talking about and I 100% disagree. The problem with Noah is talking about and what you were referring to is that is the quickest way to get Canada‘s defence budget cut and slashed get the military underfunded just like we always have. A nations first duty as far as paying for defence concern is its own defence, if we’re not going to do that Canadians aren’t going to pay for defence spending full stop . Now I’m a big believer in NATO. I spent 10 years in her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II Canadian arm forces ( 2006-2016 ) Royal Canadian infantry core, 2nd Bn Princess Patricia’s Canadian light infantry ( 3 Afghan deployments TF-1-08 , TF-3-09 and TF-2-13 ) . So I know the meaning in the importance of alliances . However, like I stated the first and most important job of any government is the defensive its own country from the north from the east from the west and from the south. I’m gonna guess from the way you’re talking you’re in the militia PRes ? Which is great but one thing that really stands out when working with the PRes is your lack of experience and that’s because of your lack of equipment and your lack of training so yes, every PRes Infantry unit should be outfitted and equipped the same as a regular line infantry unit that will go a long way to plug in that gap .
Now to specifically talking about the LAV, I think it is the perfect platform for Canadas defence , including from those from the south as far as IFV/AFV go’s . I’ve taken that thing as a driver as a Gunner and has a crew commander well over 100 km an hour off road in all seasons it is an excellent platform . In the winter months with something tracked be better ? yes 100% and I think that’s where the MCAV RFI and new procurement strategy comes in to play, but we’ll stay off that for the moment . For anyone that’s been watching or studying war in Ukraine they’ll notice that assaulting units from both sides are most successful with speed. You need to find a balance between speed and armor, and I believe the LAV gives us that balance. Yes it needs to be upgraded. I think every LAV should be upgraded to the 6M variant it needs ATGM’s mounted on the current. It needs un crewed systems adaptability etc but I believe the base is 100% correct. A very important thing to know is Canadians are not interested in paying for the defence of North America, Canadiens are interested in paying for the defensive Canada first and foremost next is NATO…. NORAD is not on that list. Unfortunately, I once again believe that this will be the downfall of our defense. Our government does not seem to understand where Canadian stand on this issue, and we will end up in the same old trap of not funding our defence because we aren’t willing to pay for the defence of the United States in a North American context, especially now. I’m a big believer in conscription , I believe every fighting age male should be trained to defend their country in case of an emergency and at this point, I believe every breathing soul in this country should be trained to defend their country in case an emergency so until every man, woman and child in this country is trained to defend Canada and equipped to do so we do not , I say again do not need to be worrying about an expeditionary force.
Like I stated before every PRes infantry unit should be equipped and outfitted as close as possible to line infantry unit , PRes Artillery should be equipped an outfitted as close as possible to the RCHA , PRes armoured Calvary units should be equipped an outfitted as close as possible to there Reg Force counter parts etc . Canada should be focussing on air, defence, un crewed systems and drones for home defence etc etc . Once all that is complete, then our next priority should be NATO and the defensive Europe. I’m not saying we should abandon that idea or NATO I’m 100% in favour of it but our number one priority must be home defence if not, we’ll be in the same problem we’ve always been.
I like it. As a retired Gunner, I feel much of this is necessary. I started in the PRes and moved to 1RCHA. I completely agree that to plug the holes, to bump man power in the front line units, the PRes should be operating as close as is possible to the standard of the equipment that the Regs do. I would go and take that 1 step further. Pres units should be on exercise with a Parent Reg force unit once a year. Build up skills, maintain the standards. Ensure that the PRes is easily able to step in an augment the Reg Force at a moments notice. If 3VP needs a Section, they can call up their “younger sibling unit” and get trained soldiers that are close to their standards. 1 RCHA needs a gun detachment. Same thing happens. They show up, step in and make the transition as seamless as possible. There’s always going to be a difference in level of competence. Yet with coaching and training in that lead up, they can be effective and meld into the unit more quickly and efficiently.
Conscription won’t work in Canada. As much as you or I believe it. We see it from the inside and the benefits we got from our service. Where we could do so much better is in retention and incentivizing. Imagine that after your first contract is up, you’re a trained Infantry Soldier posted to a front line unit, either at the rank of Cpl or close to. Then you get your next contract offer. 3-5 years and there’s a bonus or a tax exemption attached. I bet you and I would have signed that contract so much more quickly! A big part of retention is also in the on base living situation. Which you and I know NEEDS to be so much better on so many bases across the CAF.
Well, well, well what do we have here? A Gunner from 1 Horse and a Grunt from 2 VP agreeing on almost all talking points. I had to pinch myself to make sure I was still alive, I thought I died and went to hell lol . How’s it going, brother? Hope all is well with you and yours. How long were you stationed in the wonderful bosom of CFB Shilo , what years ? I agree with you 100% as far as PRes annual exercise with a parent force unit . It’s a wonder why this is already not a thing but then again the saying goes " the army could F#@% up a wet dream " lol . Yes they’re always going to be a different level in competence , that’s just the nature of the beast, but it can be shrunk down very easily and the gap closed with the steps we’re discussing here.
Now this is where I am 100% disagree with you conscription will work in Canada , Conscription has worked in Canada at least six times off the top of my head that I can think of, including both world wars . I think we’re having a disconnect in our ideas about conscription is you’re worried about public opinion and I’m not. The cold hard fact if it is necessary then it’s necessary and I believe it is. I’m not interested in asking the population opinion about the matter just like every other time we’ve imposed it, it is imposed upon the population. Yes, two of the six times that I’m thinking about off the top of my head, Canadian citizens rioted and we shot dead in the streets. That’s horrible, but necessary evil as far as I see it. It will take generations to normalize the idea after it starts, but once again it’s necessary in my opinion.
I also have heartedly disagree with you on the retention, incentivize and salary front . Understand we’re coming from two different points of view on this. You were a Career soldier , you were professional soldier. I was a wartime volunteer, who believes in serving Queen/King &Crown in a time of War . I would never under any circumstance join a peace time army . A Peace time Army is like Jerking off all the time knowing your never going to get laid because the Governments job is to keep you from getting laid , if you get laid your Government has failed . War is the Failure of Government's and should be avoided if possible within reason .So a Peace time Army just is not for me or Soldiers like me . However, I would join a peace time home defence force. The regular army is a totally different beast as we both know , and a peacetime soldier is totally different than a wartime soldier , different in the volunteers , you get different in the training different in the OP Tempo , risk is dramatically increased It’s just a completely different beast. So where I’m going with this is , are you telling me you did not enjoy the accommodations of the world renowned Lundy Lane ? lol I lived at 56c Kingston St. right outside of Lundys lol yes could everything be improved 100% should it be improved 100%. Is it the top priority? I wouldn’t think so. Yes I was shocked when I walked into my PMQ for the first time and seen the asbestos warning lol I did not mind in the barracks to be honest with you for three years and I lived on Kingston Street on base for another three then I moved to Brandon which is the one and only city I’ve ever lived in in my life . It was all OK. I didn’t mind it. I wasn’t there for a career. I wasn’t too worried about accommodations, but you have a point. I just don’t think it’s a priority.
This also brings me onto retention and salary. Anyone who joins any military for money is going to be sorely mistaken and regret their Life Choice immediately for a NUMBER of reasons . No amount of money is worth dying for , no amount of money worth Killing for . If you volunteer for the military, you’re not doing it for the money. Would it help with retention? Surly it would , but when shit hits a fan and you’re on a two-way range I don’t think it’s gonna make a damn difference if that man is gonna resign voluntarily if he’s offered more money, I truly don’t. It’ll help maintain a peace army not a war army. Maintaining a wartime army with a credible defence should be the main goal. You must always be prepared, that goes right down to the quality. The people you have in the forces I’m talking about the regular force which would be an expeditionary force employed across the world not a home defence force in this context .
For me and the people around me when we all joined we never thought about money. We never thought about living conditions. We didn’t even know what PMQ’s where we were there for one reason and one reason alone . We were at war and had to be fought , between three tours overseas five domestic tours, including floods , fires and winter Olympics security, work up training for each tour as well as the Olympic security, courses, in Gagetown town, Edmonton, Trenton etc , within that 10 year time period I probably spent less than six months in Shilo / Brandon outside of the training area so well yes I agree everything should be raised I.E.- living standard salary, etc. I think the top priority should be weapons, artillery pieces, air defense, AFVs / IFV’s , Destroyers ,Frigates , Sub's , Aircraft Carrier / Amphibious Carrier etc etc , hell I think we should acquire strategic bombers before we worry about the quality of living standards, even though it’s important . We are so far back on the ball on defence that it should be pretty low on the priorities . The tax exemptions that you spoke of is 100% a good idea and should be implemented immediately. The fact that we pay taxes and we’re basically paying our own salary is kind of pretty stupid and disheartening.
Keep your powder dry and stay safe brother. Cheers.
Thanks for not stomping on me, that was well stated. On further consideration, and with a better understanding of the direction and context of your comment, I find I agree with it. And I'm in the middle of joining the Sask Dragoons (moose jaw PRes), I've been hanging out with a couple current and former members since COVID, I started rucking with them, and have finally caved to peer pressure.
You may have a point about the perspective of the average Canadian. I think the CAF is so used to needing to apologizing for getting noticed in Canada, they are having a hard time with the idea that Canadians might actually want to see more of them at home. You still see short news stories where it basically says, "do not be alarmed if you see military vehicles on the roads in this location over the next week, the CAF is running an exercise, there will be no live ammunition on our personnel." Implied, although not stated outright, is "we are so sorry if you find our uniforms scary, we will be out of your hair in no time!" I think they should be inviting civics classes from the local high schools to come out and observe training, and host discussion about different ways for expressing civic duty and responsiblity. Proudly march from the armouries to the outskirts of town, load on to the transport vehicles there, instead of trying not to be noticed. I suspect the response from civilians would shock many career officers who have internalized a completely different relationship with the Canadian public.
And as for the PRes getting similar equipment to the reg force, that sounds amazing! And your logic for why they should get it is sound. If you want the PRes to legitimately be able to fill in for the Regs on demand, they need to train as they plan to operate. I hope that logic finds traction with the people at the top. But like Noah has insinuated before, there is still an ongoing discussion about what the defence of Canada division really should look like. I think there might be some legitimate arguments for a PRes focused on more common domestic events, like fire and flood, or sovereignty patrols, but it doesn't have to preclude a more combat focused training, where we train more like reg force, and even with reg force more often. I think the currently tenuously defined "supplemental reserve" might be able to take over more of the domestic disaster relief roles, but that that won't be any time in the next 10 or 15 years.
I guess we will have to see what the future brings.
How are you doing today, sir? Hope the day finds you well. So first I would like to say if you would not mind going and reading my latest reply to Dustin Waters , that will help fill some more context and things that I don’t have to repeat and save both of us some time . Once you do that and digest it come back and continue reading and we’ll move on with this conversation.
So first I’m going to change the subject and move the conversation to a different area and then I’ll come back and we’ll finish the conversation on what we were talking about. The reason I wanna do this is peer pressure is absolutely no reason whatsoever to join His Majesty‘s Canadian Forces , FULL STOP . I’m not here to tell you to join or not to join, but you need to wanna do it for your reasons and for the right reason Because getting your guts blown out in some foreign land for peer pressure, sure is gonna look stupid on a tombstone . I don’t know if you have a wife kids and a family or anything along those lines but that’s something you really need to take to consideration I need you to stop and make sure you completely understand what unlimited liability is . If you don’t know what unlimited liability is, please stop and take time to understand it 100%. Allow me to put this into an easily digestible context. Imagine I am your section Sgt , pin down by automatic weapon fire. I’m going to order you and your fire team partner to start tactically bounding directly at it, move from cover to cover if possible, but your main job is to get them to shoot you , use their ammunition on you so I can send a 4 man Det around their flank to kill them. If you die in the process, that’s part of the job. If you refuse to do this, I’ll shoot you myself which would be completely legal in the context of the QR&O’s / KR&O’s in a time of war . It is very important that you understand unlimited liability, digest it, and accept it. As long as you got that down, then you should be able to move forward, literally and figuratively in the context of joining His majesty Canadian armed forces.
Yeah, I’m going to guess your PRes friends told you that you will be able to deny refuse postings in deployments, which is true . Right up until a War is declared by His Majesty The King and the Canadian government initiates the war measures act. At that point you will NO LONGER be a PRes unit , the PRes will be activated into Line units . There will be no asking you there will be no ability to refuse. Make sure you read the contract you sign real well and good . Make sure you ask these questions because of recruiters job is not to make sure you are 100% understanding of what you’re signing up for their job is to reach a quota . As far as rucking around is concerned , and I’m not gonna get too deep into detail on this but make sure you can do 13 to 20 km with 200 pounds .
The BFT test limit is pretty much meaningless in a realistic point of view you need to be able to rock 4 L of water 72 hours worth of food and Frontline ammo . If you’re a simple riflemen that’s 300 rounds loaded in your magazines total of 10 magazines another 200 rounds in boxes in your day bag/ruck sack and either 100 or 200 rounds for your C6 Gunner C9 Gunner every one Carriers extra rounds for them , plus a bandoleers or two of fragmentation grenades . If you’re an M203 grenadier, add two bandoleers of 203 grenades on your person and two or three more in your day bag/ruck sack on top of everything else I just said . If you’re in a weapons debt, you may also have to carry an SF kit for your GPMG plus extra ammunition you may have to carry the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle ( Anti tank weapon ) or a 60 mm mortar as well as the SF kit for it +2 to 4 rounds for each weapon system . I’ve seen people’s bodies break. I mean hip snap back snap permanently disabled for life. This is the real reality of what you will have to go through if you ever end up in a regular force unit or your PRes unit get activated in a time of war. OK now that we got that through hopefully you can digest that understand it and continue along whatever path you see fit . I would suggest talking to people who have been in your unit that you’re wishing to join and have been in the regular force and or long time service who have combat deployment alongside the regular force if your friends fall into this category, but if not find the ones that do and find the truth and go from there.
As far as longtime Canadian forces officers or enlisted personnel giving a shit about what Canadians think about seeing them around…. That’s meaningless lol . You’re confusing government talking points Forced out of the military through public relations officers for what the military thinks and or cares about the military does not think or care . The military takes orders from his Majesty the King when you join you swear allegiance to his Majesty the King & all his Heirs in perpetuity ( FOREVER ) not the Canadian government. That’s a very important point that people need to understand your loyalty is the Not a democratically elected government that may come as a shock to you as well as most Canadians. If for some unknown reason, his majesty, the King orders you to march Ottawa. You will march to Ottawa and burn the government out. No questions asked you’re not being asked to your opinion . Hopefully you can understand that as well .
The actual name of his Majesty‘s Canadian Armed Forces is his Majesty King Charles III Armed Forces in Canada. The reason you hear CAF is because a public relations lol . Between my first and Second I.S.A.F. Afghan Tours I did the Olympic security in 2009 for the winter Olympics. We had live ammo and if we caught you in restricted area your ass got detained you got zap strapped tossed in the back of BV 206 driven down the side of a mountain and headed off to the RCMP. Every time we did floods or fires our security on the roads had live ammunition in the LAV’s if you tried to run our blockade, you would be fired on Full Stop . The army only has one way of operation. We are not police officers. We should not be employed as we are not emergency, relief cruise we are not humanitarian. The one job we have is to close with destroy and kill the enemy. Everything we do is focussed around that at all times the government uses the military in some very very wrong context and if you look through Canadian history, it has backfired in their face multiple times .
We do proudly March in Canada. Anyone that says otherwise has no idea what they’re talking about. We have freedoms of cities and we exercise those rights when and where we choose we are the Kings hitman Full stop . The PRes should not be fully focused on fires and floods just like the Reg Force should not. Like I stated we are not police officers. Not firefighters we are not humanitarian. We are soldiers. I also don’t believe that’s what ARes should be focused on that should be home defence which once again is closing with destroying and killing your enemy, that is your focus 100% of the time and should be what you train for work for and strive for nothing else. I believe there should be a national service for domestic operation such as firefighting and flood fighting. You should have an option through conscription to either join a home defence or a domestic natural disaster defense, and I pray that they move to something like that. Anyways, I hope that I was able to help you in someway and help you understand a little bit more of what you’re looking into. I wish you nothing but the best no matter which way you go. Stay safe , cheers.
Well, that was refreshing. I realize my jest about yeilding to peer pressure may have come off as flipant, but I have been interested in a career in the CAF my whole life, and only now has it become feasible. Mostly because making a commitment like that requires spousal buy in, which until recently was not available.
I'll admit, your description of unlimited liability was sobering. It one thing to intellectually understand it, but it's another to understand it viscerally. It's probably not something any civilian is equipped to really grok, and it's probably not really real to many soldiers until they are deployed in an active combat zone. I have to admit, I'm not eager to have to face that reality any time soon, but I am joining with a real awareness of the potential consequences.
While several of my ruck buddies have only been deployed domestically, oldest of them was a PRes deployed to Bosnia in the 90s, and I think I he has a better grasp of what is involved than the others. Drove a M1113 and hauled a CarlG. He seems to think I can hack it, and his son has joined up and is a corporal in the unit, and they both think I can hack it, so I guess we will see.
I am fully aware that my casual rucking with friends is nothing compared to what I will be required to do on exercise, let alone what will be required if a general callup happens. It's honestly the thing I am most immediately worried about. I'm over 40, and while I started out in trades, I've spent that last several years manning a desk. But I've also discovered that I can't exercise worth a damn for the sake of exercise itself, but I surprise myself about what I can accomplish when I have a genuine reason to show up and participate. I am not at combat fitness yet, but I'm working steadily towards it.
And I apologize if I implied that the CAF is in any way timid about its presence in and around civilians in Canada. But as a long time civilian with an interest in the military, I've always been disappointed by the degree that the CAF has been out of sight, our of mind for a majority of Canadians. Outside of Remeberance day, many Canadians forget about about it, and make dirisive comments about the CAF out of ignorance the rest of the time. I want that to change. I want Canadians to be proud of our military, and I know it's possible. I remember vividly the bridge ceremonies along the 401 during Afghanistan, and I know that the sentiment exists, it just needs more opportunities to demonstrate itself and spread to more people. And I think more regular (and positive) exposure to the units in their communities would be a good first step.
So Lockheed Martin could not deliver a properly working Maritime Helicopter, but hey, Let's reward them with a contract for nearly 50 airframes for SOF and Cyclone replacement. Plus in the current political climate? Makes me totally mad. AW101 could surely fulfill both requirements. We are already looking to expand the SAR fleet so would be good for commonality. I dont care that the Forces want to use american equipment, the government needs to do this.
At the end of the day, canadian taxpayers are footing the bill for the CF modernization. Happy to do so. Seems like a good part of the population is too but want to divert from the US. Billions to LockMart will only insure that people will withdraw their support to this.... in the end the government decides, and the CF make do. Thats their job. And lets not pretend that anything other than Hawks would not fulfill the CF's needs. Thats bullshit. And lets set aside the political side, what has LockMart done to get another contract after the Cyclone fiasco?
Thanks for your Holy-12 List. Would ESSMs fall under the interceptor category, even though they are longer ranged? They could be used for ground air-defence, not just in a naval capacity, and in a pinch they could probably be jerry-rigged onto F-35 external pylons as AAMs (since Meteor did not make your holy list).
Speaking of not making the list, I disagree with not having NSM/JSM. The government should be throwing out all sorts of incentives to Kongsberg to get them to set up a factory here.
I couldn’t understand how 427 Sqn was going to receive the Tranche 1 of nTACS. But I happened upon the 3 part interview with the CO 427 on The Pilot Project Podcast. There it was mentioned that in 2025, SOFCOM was given authorities wrt to 427 personnel, including pilots. The RCAF has now given up on some of the HR and progressive training, while retaining the authority to grant wings and technical level recognition. But once in the SOF community, those personnel are there for life, with some outside postings for professional development, but understood that you will return to your home command. Hence, once you have left the RCAF, you will wear the SOF uniform for the rest of your career and that SOFCOM will be responsible for its own force generation, not the RCAF. Upon hearing that, it made me think that of the disappointment the RCN has with the Cyclone experience and that they have to depend on the RCAF to ensure there is continuity of air det personnel and equipment. Could the change in SOFCOM’s status be the catalyst for the RCN to pursue a similar structure for them? If so, it would be back to the future, when the RCN aircrew, after basic training by the RCAF, were retained by the RCN for the rest of their careers.
The 60s advantage for phase 3 (maybe 2 with enough convincing) would really be commonality. The streamlining of a large portion of the rotary fleet would be wise for many reasons. Lockheed/sikorsky really needs to think about local assembly to sweeten the pot and make them more competitive.
While I love the Chinook, and what it can do, the best airframe for flying into severe arctic weather conditions is the Cormorant. Between us (Matt From 103 on YouTube) and the Norwegians with their SAR Queen, I feel the sensible option is to base a few up in the North. They’ve already proven they can do Arctic SAR missions. I think Chinooks are great for tactical lift, but do not have same all-weather pedigree that the Cormorants have. Trenton is getting some, however would like to see some based in Yellowknife and Iqaluit. We regularly deploy the Cormorant as a SAR asset to Pituffik during BOXTOP and NOBLE DEFENDER.
Agreed.
But Boeing really needs to develop an Arctic kit for the 47s. Heated blades, windscreens and engine inlets would really make it a wicked high north asset.
Or you jump to the 53k that already has all of this.
Q10- " We don't need a LAV for the Defence of Canada. " Then we don't need LAV's at all by your logic ? , if we don't need something for the Defence of Canada then we don't need it FULL STOP. I 100 % disagree with you on this , i think we do need LAV's for the Defence of Canada . In fact we need everything from bayonets right up to Nukes to defend Canada and any one who thinks other wise is living in a dream world .
While your enthusiasm is commendable, what Noah is referencing is that in a ground offensive on Canadian soil is a fairly low probability scenario. The only group that could pull it off is not one we can defeat in a stand up fight with LAVs, no matter how high we raise our elbows. In a world where we need to invest our limited resources where they make the maximum impact, we need to create a creditable expeditionary force that can be deployed next door to our adversaries, building credibility and and good will with our allies, and a professional and well trained force at home that creates a ready pool of trained soldiers in case of a surge situation. If we squandered our resources on building an un-invadable fortress Canada, we might actually need it, because we would no longer creditable ally. The size of our army doesn't stop Russia and China from landing their forces on our land and taking over, the strength of our alliances do. For a long time, that strength came from Uncle Sam, as much as I hate to admit it. In a changing world, the rest of NATO is having to step up, but no one member will ever be ready to go it alone anytime soon. So you better believe we need equipment that is solely intended to go over seas and contribute there, rather than make us feel tough and capable here at home. If our adversaries show up in our backyard, it will be by air or by sea, so it's hard to justify LAVs kept at home for any reason other than training and being ready for overseas deployment. Besides, if you gave the PRes LAVs (which would be awesome!) they wouldnt have a reason to accept deployment to get to play with the fun toys! That said, when do I get my LAV?
Hey, how’s it going? I completely understand what Noah is referencing and understand what Noah is talking about and I 100% disagree. The problem with Noah is talking about and what you were referring to is that is the quickest way to get Canada‘s defence budget cut and slashed get the military underfunded just like we always have. A nations first duty as far as paying for defence concern is its own defence, if we’re not going to do that Canadians aren’t going to pay for defence spending full stop . Now I’m a big believer in NATO. I spent 10 years in her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II Canadian arm forces ( 2006-2016 ) Royal Canadian infantry core, 2nd Bn Princess Patricia’s Canadian light infantry ( 3 Afghan deployments TF-1-08 , TF-3-09 and TF-2-13 ) . So I know the meaning in the importance of alliances . However, like I stated the first and most important job of any government is the defensive its own country from the north from the east from the west and from the south. I’m gonna guess from the way you’re talking you’re in the militia PRes ? Which is great but one thing that really stands out when working with the PRes is your lack of experience and that’s because of your lack of equipment and your lack of training so yes, every PRes Infantry unit should be outfitted and equipped the same as a regular line infantry unit that will go a long way to plug in that gap .
Now to specifically talking about the LAV, I think it is the perfect platform for Canadas defence , including from those from the south as far as IFV/AFV go’s . I’ve taken that thing as a driver as a Gunner and has a crew commander well over 100 km an hour off road in all seasons it is an excellent platform . In the winter months with something tracked be better ? yes 100% and I think that’s where the MCAV RFI and new procurement strategy comes in to play, but we’ll stay off that for the moment . For anyone that’s been watching or studying war in Ukraine they’ll notice that assaulting units from both sides are most successful with speed. You need to find a balance between speed and armor, and I believe the LAV gives us that balance. Yes it needs to be upgraded. I think every LAV should be upgraded to the 6M variant it needs ATGM’s mounted on the current. It needs un crewed systems adaptability etc but I believe the base is 100% correct. A very important thing to know is Canadians are not interested in paying for the defence of North America, Canadiens are interested in paying for the defensive Canada first and foremost next is NATO…. NORAD is not on that list. Unfortunately, I once again believe that this will be the downfall of our defense. Our government does not seem to understand where Canadian stand on this issue, and we will end up in the same old trap of not funding our defence because we aren’t willing to pay for the defence of the United States in a North American context, especially now. I’m a big believer in conscription , I believe every fighting age male should be trained to defend their country in case of an emergency and at this point, I believe every breathing soul in this country should be trained to defend their country in case an emergency so until every man, woman and child in this country is trained to defend Canada and equipped to do so we do not , I say again do not need to be worrying about an expeditionary force.
Like I stated before every PRes infantry unit should be equipped and outfitted as close as possible to line infantry unit , PRes Artillery should be equipped an outfitted as close as possible to the RCHA , PRes armoured Calvary units should be equipped an outfitted as close as possible to there Reg Force counter parts etc . Canada should be focussing on air, defence, un crewed systems and drones for home defence etc etc . Once all that is complete, then our next priority should be NATO and the defensive Europe. I’m not saying we should abandon that idea or NATO I’m 100% in favour of it but our number one priority must be home defence if not, we’ll be in the same problem we’ve always been.
I like it. As a retired Gunner, I feel much of this is necessary. I started in the PRes and moved to 1RCHA. I completely agree that to plug the holes, to bump man power in the front line units, the PRes should be operating as close as is possible to the standard of the equipment that the Regs do. I would go and take that 1 step further. Pres units should be on exercise with a Parent Reg force unit once a year. Build up skills, maintain the standards. Ensure that the PRes is easily able to step in an augment the Reg Force at a moments notice. If 3VP needs a Section, they can call up their “younger sibling unit” and get trained soldiers that are close to their standards. 1 RCHA needs a gun detachment. Same thing happens. They show up, step in and make the transition as seamless as possible. There’s always going to be a difference in level of competence. Yet with coaching and training in that lead up, they can be effective and meld into the unit more quickly and efficiently.
Conscription won’t work in Canada. As much as you or I believe it. We see it from the inside and the benefits we got from our service. Where we could do so much better is in retention and incentivizing. Imagine that after your first contract is up, you’re a trained Infantry Soldier posted to a front line unit, either at the rank of Cpl or close to. Then you get your next contract offer. 3-5 years and there’s a bonus or a tax exemption attached. I bet you and I would have signed that contract so much more quickly! A big part of retention is also in the on base living situation. Which you and I know NEEDS to be so much better on so many bases across the CAF.
Well, well, well what do we have here? A Gunner from 1 Horse and a Grunt from 2 VP agreeing on almost all talking points. I had to pinch myself to make sure I was still alive, I thought I died and went to hell lol . How’s it going, brother? Hope all is well with you and yours. How long were you stationed in the wonderful bosom of CFB Shilo , what years ? I agree with you 100% as far as PRes annual exercise with a parent force unit . It’s a wonder why this is already not a thing but then again the saying goes " the army could F#@% up a wet dream " lol . Yes they’re always going to be a different level in competence , that’s just the nature of the beast, but it can be shrunk down very easily and the gap closed with the steps we’re discussing here.
Now this is where I am 100% disagree with you conscription will work in Canada , Conscription has worked in Canada at least six times off the top of my head that I can think of, including both world wars . I think we’re having a disconnect in our ideas about conscription is you’re worried about public opinion and I’m not. The cold hard fact if it is necessary then it’s necessary and I believe it is. I’m not interested in asking the population opinion about the matter just like every other time we’ve imposed it, it is imposed upon the population. Yes, two of the six times that I’m thinking about off the top of my head, Canadian citizens rioted and we shot dead in the streets. That’s horrible, but necessary evil as far as I see it. It will take generations to normalize the idea after it starts, but once again it’s necessary in my opinion.
I also have heartedly disagree with you on the retention, incentivize and salary front . Understand we’re coming from two different points of view on this. You were a Career soldier , you were professional soldier. I was a wartime volunteer, who believes in serving Queen/King &Crown in a time of War . I would never under any circumstance join a peace time army . A Peace time Army is like Jerking off all the time knowing your never going to get laid because the Governments job is to keep you from getting laid , if you get laid your Government has failed . War is the Failure of Government's and should be avoided if possible within reason .So a Peace time Army just is not for me or Soldiers like me . However, I would join a peace time home defence force. The regular army is a totally different beast as we both know , and a peacetime soldier is totally different than a wartime soldier , different in the volunteers , you get different in the training different in the OP Tempo , risk is dramatically increased It’s just a completely different beast. So where I’m going with this is , are you telling me you did not enjoy the accommodations of the world renowned Lundy Lane ? lol I lived at 56c Kingston St. right outside of Lundys lol yes could everything be improved 100% should it be improved 100%. Is it the top priority? I wouldn’t think so. Yes I was shocked when I walked into my PMQ for the first time and seen the asbestos warning lol I did not mind in the barracks to be honest with you for three years and I lived on Kingston Street on base for another three then I moved to Brandon which is the one and only city I’ve ever lived in in my life . It was all OK. I didn’t mind it. I wasn’t there for a career. I wasn’t too worried about accommodations, but you have a point. I just don’t think it’s a priority.
This also brings me onto retention and salary. Anyone who joins any military for money is going to be sorely mistaken and regret their Life Choice immediately for a NUMBER of reasons . No amount of money is worth dying for , no amount of money worth Killing for . If you volunteer for the military, you’re not doing it for the money. Would it help with retention? Surly it would , but when shit hits a fan and you’re on a two-way range I don’t think it’s gonna make a damn difference if that man is gonna resign voluntarily if he’s offered more money, I truly don’t. It’ll help maintain a peace army not a war army. Maintaining a wartime army with a credible defence should be the main goal. You must always be prepared, that goes right down to the quality. The people you have in the forces I’m talking about the regular force which would be an expeditionary force employed across the world not a home defence force in this context .
For me and the people around me when we all joined we never thought about money. We never thought about living conditions. We didn’t even know what PMQ’s where we were there for one reason and one reason alone . We were at war and had to be fought , between three tours overseas five domestic tours, including floods , fires and winter Olympics security, work up training for each tour as well as the Olympic security, courses, in Gagetown town, Edmonton, Trenton etc , within that 10 year time period I probably spent less than six months in Shilo / Brandon outside of the training area so well yes I agree everything should be raised I.E.- living standard salary, etc. I think the top priority should be weapons, artillery pieces, air defense, AFVs / IFV’s , Destroyers ,Frigates , Sub's , Aircraft Carrier / Amphibious Carrier etc etc , hell I think we should acquire strategic bombers before we worry about the quality of living standards, even though it’s important . We are so far back on the ball on defence that it should be pretty low on the priorities . The tax exemptions that you spoke of is 100% a good idea and should be implemented immediately. The fact that we pay taxes and we’re basically paying our own salary is kind of pretty stupid and disheartening.
Keep your powder dry and stay safe brother. Cheers.
Thanks for not stomping on me, that was well stated. On further consideration, and with a better understanding of the direction and context of your comment, I find I agree with it. And I'm in the middle of joining the Sask Dragoons (moose jaw PRes), I've been hanging out with a couple current and former members since COVID, I started rucking with them, and have finally caved to peer pressure.
You may have a point about the perspective of the average Canadian. I think the CAF is so used to needing to apologizing for getting noticed in Canada, they are having a hard time with the idea that Canadians might actually want to see more of them at home. You still see short news stories where it basically says, "do not be alarmed if you see military vehicles on the roads in this location over the next week, the CAF is running an exercise, there will be no live ammunition on our personnel." Implied, although not stated outright, is "we are so sorry if you find our uniforms scary, we will be out of your hair in no time!" I think they should be inviting civics classes from the local high schools to come out and observe training, and host discussion about different ways for expressing civic duty and responsiblity. Proudly march from the armouries to the outskirts of town, load on to the transport vehicles there, instead of trying not to be noticed. I suspect the response from civilians would shock many career officers who have internalized a completely different relationship with the Canadian public.
And as for the PRes getting similar equipment to the reg force, that sounds amazing! And your logic for why they should get it is sound. If you want the PRes to legitimately be able to fill in for the Regs on demand, they need to train as they plan to operate. I hope that logic finds traction with the people at the top. But like Noah has insinuated before, there is still an ongoing discussion about what the defence of Canada division really should look like. I think there might be some legitimate arguments for a PRes focused on more common domestic events, like fire and flood, or sovereignty patrols, but it doesn't have to preclude a more combat focused training, where we train more like reg force, and even with reg force more often. I think the currently tenuously defined "supplemental reserve" might be able to take over more of the domestic disaster relief roles, but that that won't be any time in the next 10 or 15 years.
I guess we will have to see what the future brings.
How are you doing today, sir? Hope the day finds you well. So first I would like to say if you would not mind going and reading my latest reply to Dustin Waters , that will help fill some more context and things that I don’t have to repeat and save both of us some time . Once you do that and digest it come back and continue reading and we’ll move on with this conversation.
So first I’m going to change the subject and move the conversation to a different area and then I’ll come back and we’ll finish the conversation on what we were talking about. The reason I wanna do this is peer pressure is absolutely no reason whatsoever to join His Majesty‘s Canadian Forces , FULL STOP . I’m not here to tell you to join or not to join, but you need to wanna do it for your reasons and for the right reason Because getting your guts blown out in some foreign land for peer pressure, sure is gonna look stupid on a tombstone . I don’t know if you have a wife kids and a family or anything along those lines but that’s something you really need to take to consideration I need you to stop and make sure you completely understand what unlimited liability is . If you don’t know what unlimited liability is, please stop and take time to understand it 100%. Allow me to put this into an easily digestible context. Imagine I am your section Sgt , pin down by automatic weapon fire. I’m going to order you and your fire team partner to start tactically bounding directly at it, move from cover to cover if possible, but your main job is to get them to shoot you , use their ammunition on you so I can send a 4 man Det around their flank to kill them. If you die in the process, that’s part of the job. If you refuse to do this, I’ll shoot you myself which would be completely legal in the context of the QR&O’s / KR&O’s in a time of war . It is very important that you understand unlimited liability, digest it, and accept it. As long as you got that down, then you should be able to move forward, literally and figuratively in the context of joining His majesty Canadian armed forces.
Yeah, I’m going to guess your PRes friends told you that you will be able to deny refuse postings in deployments, which is true . Right up until a War is declared by His Majesty The King and the Canadian government initiates the war measures act. At that point you will NO LONGER be a PRes unit , the PRes will be activated into Line units . There will be no asking you there will be no ability to refuse. Make sure you read the contract you sign real well and good . Make sure you ask these questions because of recruiters job is not to make sure you are 100% understanding of what you’re signing up for their job is to reach a quota . As far as rucking around is concerned , and I’m not gonna get too deep into detail on this but make sure you can do 13 to 20 km with 200 pounds .
The BFT test limit is pretty much meaningless in a realistic point of view you need to be able to rock 4 L of water 72 hours worth of food and Frontline ammo . If you’re a simple riflemen that’s 300 rounds loaded in your magazines total of 10 magazines another 200 rounds in boxes in your day bag/ruck sack and either 100 or 200 rounds for your C6 Gunner C9 Gunner every one Carriers extra rounds for them , plus a bandoleers or two of fragmentation grenades . If you’re an M203 grenadier, add two bandoleers of 203 grenades on your person and two or three more in your day bag/ruck sack on top of everything else I just said . If you’re in a weapons debt, you may also have to carry an SF kit for your GPMG plus extra ammunition you may have to carry the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle ( Anti tank weapon ) or a 60 mm mortar as well as the SF kit for it +2 to 4 rounds for each weapon system . I’ve seen people’s bodies break. I mean hip snap back snap permanently disabled for life. This is the real reality of what you will have to go through if you ever end up in a regular force unit or your PRes unit get activated in a time of war. OK now that we got that through hopefully you can digest that understand it and continue along whatever path you see fit . I would suggest talking to people who have been in your unit that you’re wishing to join and have been in the regular force and or long time service who have combat deployment alongside the regular force if your friends fall into this category, but if not find the ones that do and find the truth and go from there.
As far as longtime Canadian forces officers or enlisted personnel giving a shit about what Canadians think about seeing them around…. That’s meaningless lol . You’re confusing government talking points Forced out of the military through public relations officers for what the military thinks and or cares about the military does not think or care . The military takes orders from his Majesty the King when you join you swear allegiance to his Majesty the King & all his Heirs in perpetuity ( FOREVER ) not the Canadian government. That’s a very important point that people need to understand your loyalty is the Not a democratically elected government that may come as a shock to you as well as most Canadians. If for some unknown reason, his majesty, the King orders you to march Ottawa. You will march to Ottawa and burn the government out. No questions asked you’re not being asked to your opinion . Hopefully you can understand that as well .
The actual name of his Majesty‘s Canadian Armed Forces is his Majesty King Charles III Armed Forces in Canada. The reason you hear CAF is because a public relations lol . Between my first and Second I.S.A.F. Afghan Tours I did the Olympic security in 2009 for the winter Olympics. We had live ammo and if we caught you in restricted area your ass got detained you got zap strapped tossed in the back of BV 206 driven down the side of a mountain and headed off to the RCMP. Every time we did floods or fires our security on the roads had live ammunition in the LAV’s if you tried to run our blockade, you would be fired on Full Stop . The army only has one way of operation. We are not police officers. We should not be employed as we are not emergency, relief cruise we are not humanitarian. The one job we have is to close with destroy and kill the enemy. Everything we do is focussed around that at all times the government uses the military in some very very wrong context and if you look through Canadian history, it has backfired in their face multiple times .
We do proudly March in Canada. Anyone that says otherwise has no idea what they’re talking about. We have freedoms of cities and we exercise those rights when and where we choose we are the Kings hitman Full stop . The PRes should not be fully focused on fires and floods just like the Reg Force should not. Like I stated we are not police officers. Not firefighters we are not humanitarian. We are soldiers. I also don’t believe that’s what ARes should be focused on that should be home defence which once again is closing with destroying and killing your enemy, that is your focus 100% of the time and should be what you train for work for and strive for nothing else. I believe there should be a national service for domestic operation such as firefighting and flood fighting. You should have an option through conscription to either join a home defence or a domestic natural disaster defense, and I pray that they move to something like that. Anyways, I hope that I was able to help you in someway and help you understand a little bit more of what you’re looking into. I wish you nothing but the best no matter which way you go. Stay safe , cheers.
I say this without a hint of irony or subtext: thank you for your service to Canada.
Well, that was refreshing. I realize my jest about yeilding to peer pressure may have come off as flipant, but I have been interested in a career in the CAF my whole life, and only now has it become feasible. Mostly because making a commitment like that requires spousal buy in, which until recently was not available.
I'll admit, your description of unlimited liability was sobering. It one thing to intellectually understand it, but it's another to understand it viscerally. It's probably not something any civilian is equipped to really grok, and it's probably not really real to many soldiers until they are deployed in an active combat zone. I have to admit, I'm not eager to have to face that reality any time soon, but I am joining with a real awareness of the potential consequences.
While several of my ruck buddies have only been deployed domestically, oldest of them was a PRes deployed to Bosnia in the 90s, and I think I he has a better grasp of what is involved than the others. Drove a M1113 and hauled a CarlG. He seems to think I can hack it, and his son has joined up and is a corporal in the unit, and they both think I can hack it, so I guess we will see.
I am fully aware that my casual rucking with friends is nothing compared to what I will be required to do on exercise, let alone what will be required if a general callup happens. It's honestly the thing I am most immediately worried about. I'm over 40, and while I started out in trades, I've spent that last several years manning a desk. But I've also discovered that I can't exercise worth a damn for the sake of exercise itself, but I surprise myself about what I can accomplish when I have a genuine reason to show up and participate. I am not at combat fitness yet, but I'm working steadily towards it.
And I apologize if I implied that the CAF is in any way timid about its presence in and around civilians in Canada. But as a long time civilian with an interest in the military, I've always been disappointed by the degree that the CAF has been out of sight, our of mind for a majority of Canadians. Outside of Remeberance day, many Canadians forget about about it, and make dirisive comments about the CAF out of ignorance the rest of the time. I want that to change. I want Canadians to be proud of our military, and I know it's possible. I remember vividly the bridge ceremonies along the 401 during Afghanistan, and I know that the sentiment exists, it just needs more opportunities to demonstrate itself and spread to more people. And I think more regular (and positive) exposure to the units in their communities would be a good first step.
So Lockheed Martin could not deliver a properly working Maritime Helicopter, but hey, Let's reward them with a contract for nearly 50 airframes for SOF and Cyclone replacement. Plus in the current political climate? Makes me totally mad. AW101 could surely fulfill both requirements. We are already looking to expand the SAR fleet so would be good for commonality. I dont care that the Forces want to use american equipment, the government needs to do this.
Sure glad you're not the one making decisions for what we need on the flightline lol
At the end of the day, canadian taxpayers are footing the bill for the CF modernization. Happy to do so. Seems like a good part of the population is too but want to divert from the US. Billions to LockMart will only insure that people will withdraw their support to this.... in the end the government decides, and the CF make do. Thats their job. And lets not pretend that anything other than Hawks would not fulfill the CF's needs. Thats bullshit. And lets set aside the political side, what has LockMart done to get another contract after the Cyclone fiasco?
Thanks for your Holy-12 List. Would ESSMs fall under the interceptor category, even though they are longer ranged? They could be used for ground air-defence, not just in a naval capacity, and in a pinch they could probably be jerry-rigged onto F-35 external pylons as AAMs (since Meteor did not make your holy list).
Speaking of not making the list, I disagree with not having NSM/JSM. The government should be throwing out all sorts of incentives to Kongsberg to get them to set up a factory here.
I couldn’t understand how 427 Sqn was going to receive the Tranche 1 of nTACS. But I happened upon the 3 part interview with the CO 427 on The Pilot Project Podcast. There it was mentioned that in 2025, SOFCOM was given authorities wrt to 427 personnel, including pilots. The RCAF has now given up on some of the HR and progressive training, while retaining the authority to grant wings and technical level recognition. But once in the SOF community, those personnel are there for life, with some outside postings for professional development, but understood that you will return to your home command. Hence, once you have left the RCAF, you will wear the SOF uniform for the rest of your career and that SOFCOM will be responsible for its own force generation, not the RCAF. Upon hearing that, it made me think that of the disappointment the RCN has with the Cyclone experience and that they have to depend on the RCAF to ensure there is continuity of air det personnel and equipment. Could the change in SOFCOM’s status be the catalyst for the RCN to pursue a similar structure for them? If so, it would be back to the future, when the RCN aircrew, after basic training by the RCAF, were retained by the RCN for the rest of their careers.
The 60s advantage for phase 3 (maybe 2 with enough convincing) would really be commonality. The streamlining of a large portion of the rotary fleet would be wise for many reasons. Lockheed/sikorsky really needs to think about local assembly to sweeten the pot and make them more competitive.