No matter how you spin it or reference other countries teams. The reality is the average observer or kid at an air show , will always find jets “cooler” than prop planes. People play video games and see top gun etc.
This is a clear downgrade…yes it’s not an operational thing…but because the snowbirds are about national pride and recruitment and moral and optics etc…well then the superficial optics of stepping down from jets, is always going to be a poor choice.
Of course we can’t and shouldn’t do frontline tactical jets for snowbirds like America does with its teams. …we can’t even keep a single CF-18 demo going anymore. And of course the other countries flying prop plane teams are skilled and look good. But we were perfectly situated in the middle. And in the era of massive spending increases for the military…it would be easy to sell new jet trainers to the public as a good and small and uncontroversial investment to make.
In the face of geopolitical events where optics and image and PR matter almost more then substance…well this move to props will fuel memes and bad vibes for maple MAGA and actual MAGA down south.
Agreed. With 19 PC-21s replacing 190 Tutors it is a safe bet that only a small number of the jet lead in trainers will be purchased whenever it might happen, which in my mind means, should the Snowbirds return the team size will be reduced due to operating costs? Sad possibility.
Great points. I would add two additional thoughts, if I may? First, the Canadian Airforce no longer has a jet lead in training aircraft before pilots fly a higher performance frontline aircraft…whenever we get one. Maybe that is McGinty’s point, we aren’t getting new fighters? Second point, the only credible air demonstration team THAT I AM AWARE of that does not use jets is the RAAF in Australia. They also use the Polaris PC-21…in a six plane formation vs the Snowbirds once unique 9 plane team.
The Brazilian AF team uses the Super Tucano but that's the only other team I could find using turboprops. They use a 7 plane formation and put on a pretty good show from the video I watched. But still, it feels slow to me....
Hi Peter, Thanks for the info. I had overlooked them, but do you feel they can be put in the same class as the Snowbirds, Red Arrows et al? I also enjoy teams using training aircraft rather than frontline fighters? You?
We were spoiled by the Tutor. It was the perfect show aircraft. Cheap to operate (at first at least), simple to maintain (at first at least 😉), easy to fly and with enough speed to create great shows (and you couldn't beat that iconic opening with the nine twinkling lights). Unfortunately that also made it difficult to replace which is why it soldered on probably way past it's prime.
I'm disappointed because I feel the government waited too long and then when push came to shove, took the easy way out. I feel the Siskin is too slow to make a good show aircraft...you need a certain amount of speed so that repositioning maneuvers don't take too long.
I'm going to check out videos of some of the teams already using these aircraft and maybe I'll be proven wrong...but I'm not hopeful. 😢
Respectfully it was and is not difficult to replace. Plenty of jet trainers have been available for the past 25 years. Buying a dozen (and some spares) should not be a big deal or difficult or even remotely controversial….they are “not weapons of war” for the more pacifist types who still like seeing them fly over parliament hill on July 1st.
I was always expecting that they would transfer the Hawks over to the Snowbirds but that never happened. Too much time on the airframes I guess....🤷♂️
I would agree with your comments save one point. The Liberals were not dragging their feet on replacing the Tutor…this announcement is part of their longer term globalist plan.
19 PC-21s will replace 190 Tutors. I believe the only other credible military air demonstration team using the PC-21 is the Aussie Airforce.
When thinking about Canadian symbols, it is important to remember that Trudeau declared Canada to be a post-national state, without core values, Trudeau is a globalist. Carney is also a globalists and is at least as bad as his predecessor. Carney works on behalf of his fellow globalists so removing symbols of a once proud Canada will continue to be removed. Gone are statues and place names of important political and heritage personages. Gone and still going is a once proud military and a rich foundational history earned in blood. Gone is our sterling world reputation. Gone is Canadian unity and pride. In the process of being cancelled are an Afghanistan war memorial and the iconic Snowbirds. The Snowbirds are being paused until 2030? Bullshit, they are gone until such time as Liberals are out of office. MND McGinty says it is a pause until new aircraft are purchased. The fleet size for the new Polaris PC-21 that is replacing the Tutor is 19 aircraft…19 aircraft replacing an original purchase of 190 Tutors. Paused, my ass, they are done!
What a horrible choice.
No matter how you spin it or reference other countries teams. The reality is the average observer or kid at an air show , will always find jets “cooler” than prop planes. People play video games and see top gun etc.
This is a clear downgrade…yes it’s not an operational thing…but because the snowbirds are about national pride and recruitment and moral and optics etc…well then the superficial optics of stepping down from jets, is always going to be a poor choice.
Of course we can’t and shouldn’t do frontline tactical jets for snowbirds like America does with its teams. …we can’t even keep a single CF-18 demo going anymore. And of course the other countries flying prop plane teams are skilled and look good. But we were perfectly situated in the middle. And in the era of massive spending increases for the military…it would be easy to sell new jet trainers to the public as a good and small and uncontroversial investment to make.
In the face of geopolitical events where optics and image and PR matter almost more then substance…well this move to props will fuel memes and bad vibes for maple MAGA and actual MAGA down south.
I don't even think F16s/F18s make good show aircraft. They can wow you with speed and noise but that's about it.
M-346 checks a lot of boxes.
Agreed. With 19 PC-21s replacing 190 Tutors it is a safe bet that only a small number of the jet lead in trainers will be purchased whenever it might happen, which in my mind means, should the Snowbirds return the team size will be reduced due to operating costs? Sad possibility.
Great points. I would add two additional thoughts, if I may? First, the Canadian Airforce no longer has a jet lead in training aircraft before pilots fly a higher performance frontline aircraft…whenever we get one. Maybe that is McGinty’s point, we aren’t getting new fighters? Second point, the only credible air demonstration team THAT I AM AWARE of that does not use jets is the RAAF in Australia. They also use the Polaris PC-21…in a six plane formation vs the Snowbirds once unique 9 plane team.
The Brazilian AF team uses the Super Tucano but that's the only other team I could find using turboprops. They use a 7 plane formation and put on a pretty good show from the video I watched. But still, it feels slow to me....
Hi Peter, Thanks for the info. I had overlooked them, but do you feel they can be put in the same class as the Snowbirds, Red Arrows et al? I also enjoy teams using training aircraft rather than frontline fighters? You?
I would say both the RAAF and Brazilian teams are a notch below the Snowbirds/Red Arrows teams. Just not quite as crisp from what I could see.
I think it's still possible we will get a high-end jet trainer like the M-346 to round-out pilot training, but sadly not for the Snowbirds.
Again Pilatus, NOT Polaris.
We were spoiled by the Tutor. It was the perfect show aircraft. Cheap to operate (at first at least), simple to maintain (at first at least 😉), easy to fly and with enough speed to create great shows (and you couldn't beat that iconic opening with the nine twinkling lights). Unfortunately that also made it difficult to replace which is why it soldered on probably way past it's prime.
I'm disappointed because I feel the government waited too long and then when push came to shove, took the easy way out. I feel the Siskin is too slow to make a good show aircraft...you need a certain amount of speed so that repositioning maneuvers don't take too long.
I'm going to check out videos of some of the teams already using these aircraft and maybe I'll be proven wrong...but I'm not hopeful. 😢
Respectfully it was and is not difficult to replace. Plenty of jet trainers have been available for the past 25 years. Buying a dozen (and some spares) should not be a big deal or difficult or even remotely controversial….they are “not weapons of war” for the more pacifist types who still like seeing them fly over parliament hill on July 1st.
I was always expecting that they would transfer the Hawks over to the Snowbirds but that never happened. Too much time on the airframes I guess....🤷♂️
I would agree with your comments save one point. The Liberals were not dragging their feet on replacing the Tutor…this announcement is part of their longer term globalist plan.
19 PC-21s will replace 190 Tutors. I believe the only other credible military air demonstration team using the PC-21 is the Aussie Airforce.
What is wrong with being global?
New Zealand, Thailand, Israel, Indonesia, Croatia, Poland, Switzerland, Australia, South Africa, Ireland, and Brazil , Morocco, Chile and Jordan
Just a list of some other countries using props
When thinking about Canadian symbols, it is important to remember that Trudeau declared Canada to be a post-national state, without core values, Trudeau is a globalist. Carney is also a globalists and is at least as bad as his predecessor. Carney works on behalf of his fellow globalists so removing symbols of a once proud Canada will continue to be removed. Gone are statues and place names of important political and heritage personages. Gone and still going is a once proud military and a rich foundational history earned in blood. Gone is our sterling world reputation. Gone is Canadian unity and pride. In the process of being cancelled are an Afghanistan war memorial and the iconic Snowbirds. The Snowbirds are being paused until 2030? Bullshit, they are gone until such time as Liberals are out of office. MND McGinty says it is a pause until new aircraft are purchased. The fleet size for the new Polaris PC-21 that is replacing the Tutor is 19 aircraft…19 aircraft replacing an original purchase of 190 Tutors. Paused, my ass, they are done!
With all due respect, the Snowbirds and Tutor retirement are headlines. The underlying story is as bigger.
Christ! I thought the subject matter was the Snowbirds and the retirement of the Tutor.
Correction…Pilatus PC-21 not Polaris.