Nice & concise. In defence of the RCN presentation the actual Outlook slide noted >$ 5B which is another way to equate the magnitude of value without confirming a topend EA expectation or what the RCN will seek approval to fund. What everyone likely knows, is that there is no way that a dozen moderately armed and combat capable ships will be built anywhere on this planet for $5B, especially when 2/3 of the project EA will need to be added in reserved for thru-life sustainment cost. As you've mentioned VLS and sensors will take a nice chunk out of that value. Even if the RCN needs cheap & quick- it is just not going to happen. Expect lots of Canadian content as you've noted, and common systems between fasst-v and cdc from a c5isr mission systems level & training value between classes. You are right on the money on length (as mentioned at Outlooks) , I too feel 120 metres likely wont be seen, maybe 110 or 115 max, but 105m is no longer a hard and fast length restriction as the RCN briefed. I'd hope for a rapid delivery with a robotic pace that rivals RCD. Hfx class is tired but also a legendary Canadian design. I am not convinced any NSS shipyard in Canada has capacity without massive investment and partnering. Maybe CDC becomes a concession? Maybe CDC has a super robust stern L&R system (or even a moonpool?) We know it'll have modular mission systems. Invite some big players to invest in the Canadian marine infrastructure base like our allied Australia and the US magnitude values. There are a few foreign yards and designs that the RCN to can call upon to include all the Canadian content desired and deliver this next combatant for the best taxpayer value for money-especially when someone starts adding up repair bills over the next 2 decades. Maybe the PBO will take a few months to run the numbers and draft a report for folks to start realizing just how much investment Canada actually needs make in our own yards to meet the fed fleet demand. Canada can certainly design awesome warships as clearly evident in Hfx Class - the nation might actually get to export this design, and finish what the Halifax Class almost achieved regarding export to other nations when it was introduced as the next gen warship. Lets go!!
I agree with the exporting angle. There are a lot of countries in the Global South that would love Frigate capabilities in a Corvette-sized vessel. With a steady production line producing 20 hulls over 10-20 years, allocating a couple of hulls spaces for foreign buyers will help the economy and extend the production line utilization even longer. This could be our Arleigh Burke.
Regarding the lack of mention of torpedoes and sonar, I'd imagine if this is truly a Halifax class capability equivalent as many are saying. It won't be long before those requirements are added on.
This vessel is so far from being a corvette - by any definition - it’s laughable. And way too large to be built in any mid Canadian shipyard's, as was proposed.
Has it officially entered proper frigate territory for the CDC? Just going off what is known and what the navy desires i can't see how they keep it within 2500-4000 tonnes.
On the cost, I wonder if they used some of the price estimates for the Magami-class frigates being bought by Australia. While Australia is saying about $10 billion for the first 3 (of 11?) there are some estimates of about $500 million unit cost for the original purchase by Japan. I would assume this is for an unfitted hull and no lifetime costs.
While I’m here, would like to hear some thoughts of what would be an “earliest” service entry date if this project were prioritized? 13 years from RFI seems at least a couple years too long?
For $5 billion, that could break down to a per-vessel cost of $250-415 million each for 12-20 CDCs, which sounds comparable to costs of some other corvettes in the 95-110m range worldwide. I'm not sure how much capability that would buy for each vessel, but could they be expecting that making a bulk purchase will bring the unit costs down? I worry if they're planning on using that strategy, then any future cuts to the number of ships will trash their budget estimates and we'll end up with a US-style Zumwalt/Constellation debacle.
If the Vigilance group is going to bid on this (and Premier Ford is pushing hard for jobs to employ those newly laid-off auto workers), I'm betting we're going to see an upcoming revision based on the Vard 7 115m design.
Nice & concise. In defence of the RCN presentation the actual Outlook slide noted >$ 5B which is another way to equate the magnitude of value without confirming a topend EA expectation or what the RCN will seek approval to fund. What everyone likely knows, is that there is no way that a dozen moderately armed and combat capable ships will be built anywhere on this planet for $5B, especially when 2/3 of the project EA will need to be added in reserved for thru-life sustainment cost. As you've mentioned VLS and sensors will take a nice chunk out of that value. Even if the RCN needs cheap & quick- it is just not going to happen. Expect lots of Canadian content as you've noted, and common systems between fasst-v and cdc from a c5isr mission systems level & training value between classes. You are right on the money on length (as mentioned at Outlooks) , I too feel 120 metres likely wont be seen, maybe 110 or 115 max, but 105m is no longer a hard and fast length restriction as the RCN briefed. I'd hope for a rapid delivery with a robotic pace that rivals RCD. Hfx class is tired but also a legendary Canadian design. I am not convinced any NSS shipyard in Canada has capacity without massive investment and partnering. Maybe CDC becomes a concession? Maybe CDC has a super robust stern L&R system (or even a moonpool?) We know it'll have modular mission systems. Invite some big players to invest in the Canadian marine infrastructure base like our allied Australia and the US magnitude values. There are a few foreign yards and designs that the RCN to can call upon to include all the Canadian content desired and deliver this next combatant for the best taxpayer value for money-especially when someone starts adding up repair bills over the next 2 decades. Maybe the PBO will take a few months to run the numbers and draft a report for folks to start realizing just how much investment Canada actually needs make in our own yards to meet the fed fleet demand. Canada can certainly design awesome warships as clearly evident in Hfx Class - the nation might actually get to export this design, and finish what the Halifax Class almost achieved regarding export to other nations when it was introduced as the next gen warship. Lets go!!
I agree with the exporting angle. There are a lot of countries in the Global South that would love Frigate capabilities in a Corvette-sized vessel. With a steady production line producing 20 hulls over 10-20 years, allocating a couple of hulls spaces for foreign buyers will help the economy and extend the production line utilization even longer. This could be our Arleigh Burke.
Regarding the lack of mention of torpedoes and sonar, I'd imagine if this is truly a Halifax class capability equivalent as many are saying. It won't be long before those requirements are added on.
Love the boxes as well. Provides a good summary. New
/updated information in italics or highlighted would be useful.
This vessel is so far from being a corvette - by any definition - it’s laughable. And way too large to be built in any mid Canadian shipyard's, as was proposed.
Has it officially entered proper frigate territory for the CDC? Just going off what is known and what the navy desires i can't see how they keep it within 2500-4000 tonnes.
On the cost, I wonder if they used some of the price estimates for the Magami-class frigates being bought by Australia. While Australia is saying about $10 billion for the first 3 (of 11?) there are some estimates of about $500 million unit cost for the original purchase by Japan. I would assume this is for an unfitted hull and no lifetime costs.
While I’m here, would like to hear some thoughts of what would be an “earliest” service entry date if this project were prioritized? 13 years from RFI seems at least a couple years too long?
Type 31 PM (Polar Mini)
For $5 billion, that could break down to a per-vessel cost of $250-415 million each for 12-20 CDCs, which sounds comparable to costs of some other corvettes in the 95-110m range worldwide. I'm not sure how much capability that would buy for each vessel, but could they be expecting that making a bulk purchase will bring the unit costs down? I worry if they're planning on using that strategy, then any future cuts to the number of ships will trash their budget estimates and we'll end up with a US-style Zumwalt/Constellation debacle.
If the Vigilance group is going to bid on this (and Premier Ford is pushing hard for jobs to employ those newly laid-off auto workers), I'm betting we're going to see an upcoming revision based on the Vard 7 115m design.