As I was reading the Wave's popped up in my head before you got to them......I'm in full agreement, likewise a similar Davie built RO/RO under the Point class model....all civilian crewed.
When we get to the proposed CMMC, budget crunch with the Rivers and subs, questions on the longevity of the current frigates etc.........another "interim" solution keeps popping up in my head, and though I'm certain there would be many possible negatives pointed out......hear me out
The recently laid up USS Milwaukee, USS Detroit, USS Little Rock and USS Sioux City......yes the four Freedom class little crappy ships. The four are all possibly going to the Greeks, but there are rumored hold ups relating to a bunch of things, but the rumor is that the Americans will let them go for free minus the cost of the needed combining gear fix (~$20 million per ship)
The already have a similar 57mm as on the Halifax class, the have RIM-116 that will be on the Rivers, Lockheed's COMBATSS-21 combat management system (Store brand AEGIS) and their power plant ..... Rolls-Royce MT30 same that will go in the Rivers.....a big flight deck and hanger, but better yet, a RHIB deck and a multi mission bay......a smallish core crew etc
Clearly not a tier 1 warship, but in conjunction with the AOPS, a cheap potential (interim) replacement for the Kingstons......if we could get them quickly, refit to repair the combing gear, and see if we can get 10-15 years out of them (until much of the Rivers and Subs are entering service and/or building etc).
Then, focus on a Kingstons/LCS replacement in conjunction with a "multi role support/corvette ship"......maybe that will be a mix of something like the new Dutch Multifunctional Support Ship and whatever common ship replaces their Holland OPVs and Rotterdam LPDs? Both the Dutch and RN/RFA have used their larger Rotterdam/Bay class ships for anti pirate and smuggler missions.....
I think the 4 LCS, post combing gear fix, might make a decent interim corvette/Kingston class replacement, without adding to funding pressures well the Rivers/Subs start being ordered/built/enter service.....
I'm happy to know I'm not the only one thinking deeply on the Wave-class! Truthfully, there are sadly limited options for replenishment ships that will be coming to the market, at least those built after 2000.
I am also in no room to judge any ideas lol. Sometimes we need radical ideas to solve our problems. The fact is that a lot of our current fleet will age out before we get to the point their replacements come into service.
It is a valid issue, one that we hope to solve by duct taping upgrades together and praying the hulls hold together long enough. Even the current plan sees the Halifax retired before enough Rivers enter service to replace them.
So when I hear the idea of grabbing some LCS, even as temporary solutions, I am willing to honestly investigate anything. I had an idea, for a rushed CMMC, assuming a Corvette is acquired.
Foreign-Built, slowly phasing out Halifax as they enter service, perhaps reusing some of the equipment and systems off the hull to keep costs down.
That would require the highest end CMMC, and likely would face heavy opposition from domestic shipyards expecting CMMC to be part of the NSS.
We also have no timeline for CMMC, no funding, and an uphill battle for the navy to get a vessel they seemingly want. That is for a later time though!
The Greeks though have made it clear they ain't paying for the LCS, and expect and issues worked out. That might be the nail in the coffin of that deal, especially as they shift to looking into Constellation and EPC procurement.
It's not the worst idea I've heard, far from it. Part of why I feel we are looking at a High-End CMMC is to fill that gap, among others, made by CSC.
Another solution I heard is adding more Unmanned and Autonomous systems, such as the LUSV or Multifunctional Support Ship to help fill those gaps. That's being studied, though I would be surprised of it goes far at this time!
Interm solutions are few and far between in this category, and the LCS might be one of the few options actually available at that level if we truely wanted to investigate it.
I got to thinking about the Waves after reading that the RFA has put the new Tiderace into reduced operating status......then checked why a new tanker was laid up when they surely had older ones, and was surprised to see both of the Waves with uncertain futures.
The LCS, despite all the issues with their planned mission modules, the combining gear etc, they are ships in being, with the four I mentioned tied up after never getting their combining gear fixed.
To me, they seem to check many boxes for an interim type......they're built, the issues with them and a way to address them is present so low risks. Many of their systems are similar to ones we either already operate or will operate with the Rivers. And we could likely get them on the cheap.
With their big mission bay and hanger, I think its safe to assume we could recycle many of the mission tailored components already in use on the Kingstons, likewise they have the space for use to trial new ones, including unmanned systems.
For the USN they clearly were a failure in not being a suitable OHP frigate replacement, nor should we look at them as replacements for our frigates.......but as Kingston "interim" replacement ? I'd figure they would be suitable for chasing down drug smugglers and a whole whack of domestic operations.......
In addition, thanks to their large flight decks, their cousins the Independence class we/are used to test the containerized MK 70 Payload Delivery System.........Is there a reason we couldn't trial say the RN's unmanned ARCIMS mine hunter system with their mobile containerized command centers in their mission bay?
I just worry that if a CMMC goes ahead in the same timeline as the Rivers, the Rivers might be cut to pay for them by a future government......
With four "interim" LCS, sole sourced due to operational need of course, we put them through the refit in the US yard, but have a maintenance contract put in place, with Lockheed support, on both coasts....so less cries from domestic yards and the promise of the future CMMC project to bid on "later".....
As you mentioned, interim warships are far and few between........and these LCS are low milage and just sitting there and would be a marked improvement (warts and all) in terms of capability over what they would replace....and we could probably get them cheap.....I think cost and a timeline of procurement measured in months, not years or decades is their major selling point.
I think another post would be worth it, if anything, as something to get more people talking/thinking......if anything, I'd like to see what cost and crew savings could be had by retiring all the Kingstons, then the refitting and operating the four LCS
As I was reading the Wave's popped up in my head before you got to them......I'm in full agreement, likewise a similar Davie built RO/RO under the Point class model....all civilian crewed.
When we get to the proposed CMMC, budget crunch with the Rivers and subs, questions on the longevity of the current frigates etc.........another "interim" solution keeps popping up in my head, and though I'm certain there would be many possible negatives pointed out......hear me out
The recently laid up USS Milwaukee, USS Detroit, USS Little Rock and USS Sioux City......yes the four Freedom class little crappy ships. The four are all possibly going to the Greeks, but there are rumored hold ups relating to a bunch of things, but the rumor is that the Americans will let them go for free minus the cost of the needed combining gear fix (~$20 million per ship)
The already have a similar 57mm as on the Halifax class, the have RIM-116 that will be on the Rivers, Lockheed's COMBATSS-21 combat management system (Store brand AEGIS) and their power plant ..... Rolls-Royce MT30 same that will go in the Rivers.....a big flight deck and hanger, but better yet, a RHIB deck and a multi mission bay......a smallish core crew etc
Clearly not a tier 1 warship, but in conjunction with the AOPS, a cheap potential (interim) replacement for the Kingstons......if we could get them quickly, refit to repair the combing gear, and see if we can get 10-15 years out of them (until much of the Rivers and Subs are entering service and/or building etc).
Then, focus on a Kingstons/LCS replacement in conjunction with a "multi role support/corvette ship"......maybe that will be a mix of something like the new Dutch Multifunctional Support Ship and whatever common ship replaces their Holland OPVs and Rotterdam LPDs? Both the Dutch and RN/RFA have used their larger Rotterdam/Bay class ships for anti pirate and smuggler missions.....
I think the 4 LCS, post combing gear fix, might make a decent interim corvette/Kingston class replacement, without adding to funding pressures well the Rivers/Subs start being ordered/built/enter service.....
I'm happy to know I'm not the only one thinking deeply on the Wave-class! Truthfully, there are sadly limited options for replenishment ships that will be coming to the market, at least those built after 2000.
I am also in no room to judge any ideas lol. Sometimes we need radical ideas to solve our problems. The fact is that a lot of our current fleet will age out before we get to the point their replacements come into service.
It is a valid issue, one that we hope to solve by duct taping upgrades together and praying the hulls hold together long enough. Even the current plan sees the Halifax retired before enough Rivers enter service to replace them.
So when I hear the idea of grabbing some LCS, even as temporary solutions, I am willing to honestly investigate anything. I had an idea, for a rushed CMMC, assuming a Corvette is acquired.
Foreign-Built, slowly phasing out Halifax as they enter service, perhaps reusing some of the equipment and systems off the hull to keep costs down.
That would require the highest end CMMC, and likely would face heavy opposition from domestic shipyards expecting CMMC to be part of the NSS.
We also have no timeline for CMMC, no funding, and an uphill battle for the navy to get a vessel they seemingly want. That is for a later time though!
The Greeks though have made it clear they ain't paying for the LCS, and expect and issues worked out. That might be the nail in the coffin of that deal, especially as they shift to looking into Constellation and EPC procurement.
It's not the worst idea I've heard, far from it. Part of why I feel we are looking at a High-End CMMC is to fill that gap, among others, made by CSC.
Another solution I heard is adding more Unmanned and Autonomous systems, such as the LUSV or Multifunctional Support Ship to help fill those gaps. That's being studied, though I would be surprised of it goes far at this time!
Interm solutions are few and far between in this category, and the LCS might be one of the few options actually available at that level if we truely wanted to investigate it.
Another post perhaps? 🤔
I got to thinking about the Waves after reading that the RFA has put the new Tiderace into reduced operating status......then checked why a new tanker was laid up when they surely had older ones, and was surprised to see both of the Waves with uncertain futures.
The LCS, despite all the issues with their planned mission modules, the combining gear etc, they are ships in being, with the four I mentioned tied up after never getting their combining gear fixed.
To me, they seem to check many boxes for an interim type......they're built, the issues with them and a way to address them is present so low risks. Many of their systems are similar to ones we either already operate or will operate with the Rivers. And we could likely get them on the cheap.
With their big mission bay and hanger, I think its safe to assume we could recycle many of the mission tailored components already in use on the Kingstons, likewise they have the space for use to trial new ones, including unmanned systems.
For the USN they clearly were a failure in not being a suitable OHP frigate replacement, nor should we look at them as replacements for our frigates.......but as Kingston "interim" replacement ? I'd figure they would be suitable for chasing down drug smugglers and a whole whack of domestic operations.......
In addition, thanks to their large flight decks, their cousins the Independence class we/are used to test the containerized MK 70 Payload Delivery System.........Is there a reason we couldn't trial say the RN's unmanned ARCIMS mine hunter system with their mobile containerized command centers in their mission bay?
I just worry that if a CMMC goes ahead in the same timeline as the Rivers, the Rivers might be cut to pay for them by a future government......
With four "interim" LCS, sole sourced due to operational need of course, we put them through the refit in the US yard, but have a maintenance contract put in place, with Lockheed support, on both coasts....so less cries from domestic yards and the promise of the future CMMC project to bid on "later".....
As you mentioned, interim warships are far and few between........and these LCS are low milage and just sitting there and would be a marked improvement (warts and all) in terms of capability over what they would replace....and we could probably get them cheap.....I think cost and a timeline of procurement measured in months, not years or decades is their major selling point.
I think another post would be worth it, if anything, as something to get more people talking/thinking......if anything, I'd like to see what cost and crew savings could be had by retiring all the Kingstons, then the refitting and operating the four LCS
USN Lemons to RCN Lemonade?? ;)