I like this complement to the Type 26 Frigate. Given the elevated importance of the Arctic and Far North, a Corvette serves sovereign interests far better than multi-mission ships being proposed elsewhere. I guess we'll see soon enough.
I’m not sure if i actually like the way this is shaping up (personally).
Selfishly, I really want these to be built in Canada, not in Finland, not split between the two; here.
I’m also (kinda) disappointed in the direction of making them Arctic focused as I believe that a corvette could have made for a good export opportunity, but specializing it for Arctic ops drastically reduces that viability.
Lastly, looking through my murky crystal ball, with the proliferation of Air/Surface/subsurface drones, long range missiles, etc. that a corvette with more of a focus on being a defensive screen or picket would be a wise choice to protect the larger ships.
Whatever design is chosen, they will def be built in Canada. It’s pretty much the only thing we can say for sure at this point when it comes to the CDC. I’d like the hulls to be built wherever, but would prefer the combat systems be fitted out by Irving in Halifax to leverage that expertise.
I don't think that a Mk3 turret. If you look closely, the shaping looks like a OTO Strales 76mm turret. Though I'm assuming that and the Millenium would be swapped out in the Canadian version for a Mk3 57mm and Lionfish 30mm for standardization and logistics purposes. The high bow probably gives enough depth to install a strike-length Mk41 VLS, providing maximum flexibilty in loadouts. It looks like there is a step at the stern that could hold an ISO 40 foot container sideways to provide the modularity. And that radar mount looks like it will definately be sime flavour of 4D ASEA.
I think this is Davies' high-end corvette model in the 2500-3500t range and with a coresponding high-end pricetag (around $509m?) which I dont think fits what the RCN is looking for. This looks like a mini-River that would be a main combatant for the smaller navies in the region. They might actually be looking for strengthened hulls to offset whatever ramming tactics the PLA Navy employ in the future. :)
That's one thing I have heard you talk about, Noah - what price point is the RCN looking for? I get the feeling they are looking for something in the $250-330m range, so they can afford to build as many as they can. They will be looking for most bang for the buck, which will shape how capable the CDC will be.
I also assumed it was a OTO 76 with the shaping, but everyone I spoke with about it insisted it was a Bofors 57. I assume as well we would change the Armament. Similar to sensors, rarely does the graphic model end up being reality. Especially when we're still working on exactly what we want. I also assume those are Strike-Length.
Its why I didn't really bring up the sensors, since they're bound to be different depending on exactly what the navy determines they want capability-wise (I havent heard on this front) or what supplier Davie decides to partner with (Vard as example has Thales) although that assumes we just go with whatever integrators are on the team.
I assume the Aft deck has a container on it. I'm like 99% certain but it's a blue blob, so I don't wanna say outright. I would love to get a better look at it dimension-wise.
This is certainly the higher-end of the family. We know of two, the 120 and 105. I have no idea if there might be more in there but I'm assuming the 120 is the top-end at this time. Maybe there's a full-on frigate above it? I doubt it but Davie is full of madlads who would absolutely design it if they felt like it. I have seen a lot weirder from Davie.
This is 100% above what we want. This is bigger than the 104m 'requirement', insanely specialized, and about as heavily armed and 'premium' of a Corvette as you can find. I would honestly call this a Light Frigate in actuality, that's just me.
However the navy is willing to break their 104 limit if the capability is significant enough to justify fucking around with berthing. Is this in that category? I wouldn't say so, however we also don't know anything concrete about the design.
I am not a fan of Arctic combatants, not like this. The navy wants something that is PC6 equivalent, able to travel up to the Arctic in the busy summer months. Thats reasonable. I get that. Its also not a major feat. PC6 is common for us. This is a step beyond that.
I think CDC is going to run into a lot of philosophies. I think we've already seen that in how the requirements have shifted from last year. It was only in January that the navy envisioned a modular, 1000 ton little Corvette. That is now being replaced by concepts like this and Vigilance 100.
The 105 certainly fits our requirements more at this time. There's time for requirements to change, but this is a true second combatant. It goes against the camp that envisioned a smaller, cheaper, scalable Corvette that could be easily built and equipped at smaller yards like Naval, Ontario, etc.
That was the concept for a long-time, for something decently armed but scalable. In conflict we won't have time to replace high-end combatants quickly. This was meant as a leverage against that, to have something that could have some punch but be quickly constructed and equipped as needed. A modern Flower.
This certainly isn't it, and Davie might not be proposing it for CDC. That might be the 105. Vard has a unique concept of offering both the 100 and 75, since there is fsir amount of Commonality, with the 100 meant to be designed to be constructed at smaller yards like Ontario. It also cuts some corners and leverages a lot of COTS equipment and commercial standards, but it fits that philosophy.
I'm not sure this is it, certainly it isnt being presented as such. Different philosophies, different priorities at play here. We can't tell to much until we hear more details on the vessel and such. We have one image, so I don't wanna judge it to much right now.
Keep in mind also CDC has no budget. Its unfunded. So we have no idea the full price range to look at.
I believe the 105 design offers a more compelling balance for the CDC. If its current layout were adjusted with a slightly reduced flight deck focused on UAS operations and the addition of an open, functional quarterdeck, it would be the right size and mission fit.
The 105 appears to avoid the performance penalties of the 120 option. A light degree of ice capability is desirable for the CDC, but the 120 leans too far into an icebreaking hull form which comes at the cost of speed and open ocean performance. A more balanced approach would better serve the role.
This might be a dumb question but, If we are looking for something in the 100m to 120m range. Could we not just build more de Wolf class ships and up arm them? Or upgrade the existing ones? They are 105ish metres and have icebreaking capability.
I like this complement to the Type 26 Frigate. Given the elevated importance of the Arctic and Far North, a Corvette serves sovereign interests far better than multi-mission ships being proposed elsewhere. I guess we'll see soon enough.
I’m not sure if i actually like the way this is shaping up (personally).
Selfishly, I really want these to be built in Canada, not in Finland, not split between the two; here.
I’m also (kinda) disappointed in the direction of making them Arctic focused as I believe that a corvette could have made for a good export opportunity, but specializing it for Arctic ops drastically reduces that viability.
Lastly, looking through my murky crystal ball, with the proliferation of Air/Surface/subsurface drones, long range missiles, etc. that a corvette with more of a focus on being a defensive screen or picket would be a wise choice to protect the larger ships.
I’m no navy guy though, so what do I know? 😅
Whatever design is chosen, they will def be built in Canada. It’s pretty much the only thing we can say for sure at this point when it comes to the CDC. I’d like the hulls to be built wherever, but would prefer the combat systems be fitted out by Irving in Halifax to leverage that expertise.
I don't think that a Mk3 turret. If you look closely, the shaping looks like a OTO Strales 76mm turret. Though I'm assuming that and the Millenium would be swapped out in the Canadian version for a Mk3 57mm and Lionfish 30mm for standardization and logistics purposes. The high bow probably gives enough depth to install a strike-length Mk41 VLS, providing maximum flexibilty in loadouts. It looks like there is a step at the stern that could hold an ISO 40 foot container sideways to provide the modularity. And that radar mount looks like it will definately be sime flavour of 4D ASEA.
I think this is Davies' high-end corvette model in the 2500-3500t range and with a coresponding high-end pricetag (around $509m?) which I dont think fits what the RCN is looking for. This looks like a mini-River that would be a main combatant for the smaller navies in the region. They might actually be looking for strengthened hulls to offset whatever ramming tactics the PLA Navy employ in the future. :)
That's one thing I have heard you talk about, Noah - what price point is the RCN looking for? I get the feeling they are looking for something in the $250-330m range, so they can afford to build as many as they can. They will be looking for most bang for the buck, which will shape how capable the CDC will be.
I also assumed it was a OTO 76 with the shaping, but everyone I spoke with about it insisted it was a Bofors 57. I assume as well we would change the Armament. Similar to sensors, rarely does the graphic model end up being reality. Especially when we're still working on exactly what we want. I also assume those are Strike-Length.
Its why I didn't really bring up the sensors, since they're bound to be different depending on exactly what the navy determines they want capability-wise (I havent heard on this front) or what supplier Davie decides to partner with (Vard as example has Thales) although that assumes we just go with whatever integrators are on the team.
I assume the Aft deck has a container on it. I'm like 99% certain but it's a blue blob, so I don't wanna say outright. I would love to get a better look at it dimension-wise.
This is certainly the higher-end of the family. We know of two, the 120 and 105. I have no idea if there might be more in there but I'm assuming the 120 is the top-end at this time. Maybe there's a full-on frigate above it? I doubt it but Davie is full of madlads who would absolutely design it if they felt like it. I have seen a lot weirder from Davie.
This is 100% above what we want. This is bigger than the 104m 'requirement', insanely specialized, and about as heavily armed and 'premium' of a Corvette as you can find. I would honestly call this a Light Frigate in actuality, that's just me.
However the navy is willing to break their 104 limit if the capability is significant enough to justify fucking around with berthing. Is this in that category? I wouldn't say so, however we also don't know anything concrete about the design.
I am not a fan of Arctic combatants, not like this. The navy wants something that is PC6 equivalent, able to travel up to the Arctic in the busy summer months. Thats reasonable. I get that. Its also not a major feat. PC6 is common for us. This is a step beyond that.
I think CDC is going to run into a lot of philosophies. I think we've already seen that in how the requirements have shifted from last year. It was only in January that the navy envisioned a modular, 1000 ton little Corvette. That is now being replaced by concepts like this and Vigilance 100.
The 105 certainly fits our requirements more at this time. There's time for requirements to change, but this is a true second combatant. It goes against the camp that envisioned a smaller, cheaper, scalable Corvette that could be easily built and equipped at smaller yards like Naval, Ontario, etc.
That was the concept for a long-time, for something decently armed but scalable. In conflict we won't have time to replace high-end combatants quickly. This was meant as a leverage against that, to have something that could have some punch but be quickly constructed and equipped as needed. A modern Flower.
This certainly isn't it, and Davie might not be proposing it for CDC. That might be the 105. Vard has a unique concept of offering both the 100 and 75, since there is fsir amount of Commonality, with the 100 meant to be designed to be constructed at smaller yards like Ontario. It also cuts some corners and leverages a lot of COTS equipment and commercial standards, but it fits that philosophy.
I'm not sure this is it, certainly it isnt being presented as such. Different philosophies, different priorities at play here. We can't tell to much until we hear more details on the vessel and such. We have one image, so I don't wanna judge it to much right now.
Keep in mind also CDC has no budget. Its unfunded. So we have no idea the full price range to look at.
Does that budget come out with the RFP, or will that be decided after one of the bids is approved.
Estimated Budgets would be set before, along with desired numbers. Remember, there are still other stages before an RFP!
The slender bay may be for RAS.
My first thoughts, but I dont wanna throw anything out there until I'm certain because sometimes you can be surprised.
I believe the 105 design offers a more compelling balance for the CDC. If its current layout were adjusted with a slightly reduced flight deck focused on UAS operations and the addition of an open, functional quarterdeck, it would be the right size and mission fit.
The 105 appears to avoid the performance penalties of the 120 option. A light degree of ice capability is desirable for the CDC, but the 120 leans too far into an icebreaking hull form which comes at the cost of speed and open ocean performance. A more balanced approach would better serve the role.
This might be a dumb question but, If we are looking for something in the 100m to 120m range. Could we not just build more de Wolf class ships and up arm them? Or upgrade the existing ones? They are 105ish metres and have icebreaking capability.